Permeability of free space question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the permeability of free space (μ₀) and vacuum energy density, particularly in the context of the Casimir effect. Participants explore whether μ₀ changes in different vacuum conditions, such as between Casimir plates, and seek to understand the implications of vacuum fluctuations on permeability.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Paul Titze questions if the permeability of free space (μ₀) is related to vacuum energy density and whether it would differ between regions of varying energy density, such as between Casimir plates.
  • Uncle Al references the Scharnhorst effect, suggesting that the relationship has not been demonstrated experimentally, particularly due to challenges in experimental setups.
  • Paul further elaborates that if vacuum fluctuations, which may consist of particle/antiparticle pairs acting as magnetic dipoles, are suppressed between the Casimir plates, then the permeability in that region might be lower than in free space (μ(Casimir) < μ₀).
  • Paul expresses a desire for mathematical insights and relevant papers on the relationship between vacuum permeability and vacuum energy density.
  • A participant suggests that Paul might want to consider permittivity instead of permeability, indicating a potential misunderstanding or misalignment in the focus of the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the relationship between permeability and vacuum energy density. Multiple viewpoints are presented, with some participants questioning the relevance of permeability while others explore its implications in the context of vacuum fluctuations.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the definitions of permeability and permittivity, as well as the implications of vacuum fluctuations on these properties. The discussion also highlights the lack of experimental evidence for some claims made about the behavior of permeability in varying vacuum conditions.

captpaul101@hotmail.com
Hi everyone,

Been doing some reading on permeability lately... My question is would
the permeability of free space (u0) be related in any way to the
vacuum
energy density or would it remain the same regardless (4PIx10-7)?

For eg would u0 be lower inside the space between the Casimir plates
where the energy density is lower then outside the plates or the
same?
Thanks for your time.

Cheers, Paul Titze.
http://wizlab.com/marine
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
captpaul101@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Been doing some reading on permeability lately... My question is would
> the permeability of free space (u0) be related in any way to the
> vacuum
> energy density or would it remain the same regardless (4PIx10-7)?
>
> For eg would u0 be lower inside the space between the Casimir plates
> where the energy density is lower then outside the plates or the
> same?
> Thanks for your time.
>
> Cheers, Paul Titze.
> http://wizlab.com/marine[/color]

http://arXiv.org/abs/gr-qc/0107091
http://arXiv.org/abs/quant-ph/0010055
Phys. Lett. B236 354 (1990)
Phys. Lett. B250 133 (1990)
J Phys A26 2037 (1993)
Scharnhorst effect

It has never been demonstrated - propagation normal to the surfaces
makes for a short experiment!

--
Uncle Al
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/
(Toxic URL! Unsafe for children and most mammals)
http://www.mazepath.com/uncleal/lajos.htm#a2
 
Looking up the definition, permeability is the degree of magnetization
of a material that
responds linearly to an applied magnetic field.

So the permeability of free space (uo = 4PIx10^-7) is the degree of
magnetizaton of free space
that responds linearly? to an applied magnetic field. Magnetization
being a measure of the
magnetic dipole density.

This is why one observes vacuum birefringence for eg as this polarizes
the dipoles in the quantum
vacuum when one applies a strong enough magnetic field. If the vacuum
fluctuations are created as
particle/antiparticle pairs (which act as magnetic dipoles?) and since
the vacuum energy density
is lower between the Casimir plates this would mean that these vacuum
fluctuations are partly
suppressed (less particle/antiparticle pairs) between the plates. If
the magnetic dipole density
is less between the plates then the permeability of the Casimir vacuum
should be less then that
compared to free space? u(Casimir) < u0 ?

These are only simple arguments, better go through the maths first...
are there any papers out
there that specifically touch on this subject? Can't seem to find much
on arXiv... What I'm really
interested to know is if there is a relation between vacuum
permeability and vacuum energy density...

Cheers, Paul Titze.
http://wizlab.com/marine
 
Paul, perhaps you should look at permittivity rather than permeability.
 

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