Photoelectric effect and atomic excitation

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the photoelectric effect and atomic excitation, addressing various questions related to the behavior of alkali metals under visible light, the nature of photon absorption and emission, and the functioning of fluorescent tubes. The scope includes theoretical concepts, experimental implications, and clarifications on related phenomena.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Homework-related

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that visible light could ionize alkali metals like sodium, raising questions about the conditions under which this occurs and the implications of positive charge accumulation on the metal's surface.
  • There is a discussion on whether the photoelectric effect requires only IR-UV radiation or if other forms of radiation, such as X-rays and gamma rays, can also induce the effect.
  • One participant questions the common assertion that absorbed waves are re-emitted at longer wavelengths, particularly in the context of the greenhouse effect, seeking clarification on the energy transitions involved.
  • Participants inquire about the absorption spectrum, specifically whether photons can be absorbed by gases, liquids, or solids, and how this relates to the observed black lines in the spectrum.
  • There is curiosity about the mechanism by which an electron can emit multiple photons when returning to a lower energy state, with examples provided for clarification.
  • In the context of fluorescent tubes, participants discuss the energy requirements for electrons to emit UV photons and the role of the fluorescent coating in converting UV to visible light.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on some aspects, such as the mechanisms of ionization and excitation in fluorescent tubes, but multiple competing views remain on questions 2 to 5, indicating that the discussion is not fully resolved.

Contextual Notes

Some claims depend on specific definitions and assumptions, such as the conditions for ionization and the nature of photon absorption and emission processes. There are unresolved mathematical steps regarding energy transitions and selection rules that participants reference without reaching consensus.

Who May Find This Useful

This discussion may be useful for students and enthusiasts of physics, particularly those interested in the photoelectric effect, atomic behavior, and the principles underlying fluorescence and absorption spectra.

Metals
Messages
48
Reaction score
2
A few quick questions I'd like cleared up:1) Alkali metals are said to have a really low threshold energy, enough for visible light to cause the photoelectric effect. Does this mean if I aim a flashlight (turned on) at a piece of sodium, I could ionise it? Simply flashing a light over a piece of alkali metal could give it a positive charge? Surely they'd always be positively charged then?

2) It doesn't have to be IR-UV radiation does it? Not an 'actual colour' all the time, right? X-rays and gamma rays are more capable of the photoelectric effect, correct?

3) An electron dropping back to its ground state after excitation releases a photon of equal energy to the energy level difference (energy it gained from another electron or photon). Why is it I commonly read when waves are absorbed, they are re-emitted at a longer wavelength (therefore lower frequency)? E.g: Greenhouse effect.

4) When we see an absorption spectrum, can the photons only be absorbed by gases or do the black lines also account for photons absorbed by liquids/solids also in the way?

5) How can an electron emit more than one photon when relaxing?

6) In fluorescent tubes, do the electrons release UV photons because of how high the energy from the incident electrons is?Much appreciated.
 
Physics news on Phys.org
For an answer to your first question, I think the experiment with visible light is best performed by having a positive voltage difference between a collecting plate and the metal that is being illuminated with visible light. Otherwise the electron as it starts to leave the surface will induce a positive charge around it and get pulled back to the surface. And also, once the surface gets slightly positively charged, additional electrons would find it more difficult to leave the surface. The photons of visible light have an energy of only 2-3 eV, so that they would never be able to escape from the surface when illuminated with visible light if the voltage got as high as +3 volts. I'm no expert at the photoelectric effect, but I think I successfully answered your first question. ## \\ ## For question 6, I think you need to get the electrons accelerated across a sufficient voltage in the fluorescent tube to ionize and also excite the atoms of the gas in the tube. (The arc would quickly become extinguished if the electrons didn't have sufficient energy to ionize additional atoms. Oftentimes in a fluorescent tube you have a start-up potential of a couple thousand volts, but once the arc gets established you can run it on 15 volts or thereabouts.) Upon recombination and/or dropping down to the ground or lower states, many of the transitions are in the uv range. If you look up ionization potentials for some of the noble gases, their ionization potentials are in the neighborhood of 12-25 volts which result in uv photons for any subsequent recombinations of an electron with the ion. The purpose of the fluorescent coating is to convert uv photons to visible light.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: Metals
I can settle for 1 and 6, though 2 - 5 still remain. These are relatively quick to answer, I just need a brief explanation and/or confirmation on whether I am correct or not.

Many thanks.
 
Metals said:
I can settle for 1 and 6, though 2 - 5 still remain. These are relatively quick to answer, I just need a brief explanation and/or confirmation on whether I am correct or not.

Many thanks.
I can give a simple answer to #3. When visible light from the sun is absorbed by the Earth's surface, it serves to raise the temperature of the Earth so that more infrared (blackbody type radiation) is emitted. Much of this is in the 5-20 micron wavelength region of the spectrum. (Peak wavelength of radiated blackbody spectrum is given by Wien's law ## \lambda_{peak} T_{kelvin}=2898 \, microns \,deg \,K ##. Temperature of Earth's surface is approximately T=300 Kelvin). ## \\ ## The greenhouse effect is caused by greenhouse gases ( ## CO_2 ## and chlorofluorocarbons, etc., you can google this), that have absorption bands in this region of the spectrum. Without the greenhouse gases, a higher percentage of IR would get radiated into space, thereby allowing for additional radiative cooling. ## \\ ## Editing...In addition, I think you have #2 and # 4 correct, and #5 can certainly occur by an electron making a couple of successive transitions to the ground state. For example, for a hydrogen atom, going from 3s to 2p and then from 2p to 1s. Some transitions are forbidden by the selection rules=you can google the details. (e.g. A quick google shows ## \Delta L=\pm 1 ## is required for a transition.)
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
1K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
973
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 0 ·
Replies
0
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K