Photoelectric effect without photons

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  • #1
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Recently I've seen claims here on PF(from some highly trusted members), that photoelectric effect can be described without using the photon concept and so can't be a demonstration of the quantized nature of light. This demonstration is only provided by more advanced experiments.
After that, I tried to find a paper that treats photoelectric effect using classical EM but I couldn't.
Can anyone point to such a paper?
Thanks
 

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  • #2
ZapperZ
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Please read this JJ Thorn et al. paper and the references therein.

http://people.whitman.edu/~beckmk/QM/grangier/Thorn_ajp.pdf

You also have a misunderstanding here. The photoelectric effect experiment is the simplest and most naive demonstration of a more general photoemission phenomenon. The more advanced and more complex experiments such as multiphoton photoemission, angle-resolved photoemission, etc. all do NOT have a classical or semi classical description as of now.

Zz.
 
  • #3
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You also have a misunderstanding here. The photoelectric effect experiment is the simplest and most naive demonstration of a more general photoemission phenomenon. The more advanced and more complex experiments such as multiphoton photoemission, angle-resolved photoemission, etc. all do NOT have a classical or semi classical description as of now.
So photoemission, in the general sense, has no classical or semi-classical description but one of its special cases, the "simplest and most naive" phenomenon considered by Einstein(which was what I meant when I said photoelectric effect because I don't know of a special name for that special case!), can be explained semi-classically i.e. with quantized matter and classical light. Right?
 
  • #4
dextercioby
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Yes, a semiclassical model - 'photoionization of a K shell electron': it's textbook material, see for example D. Blokhintsev's <Quantum Mechanics>, section 95, pp. 320 - 327 - Springer, 1964.
 
  • #5
ZapperZ
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Yes, a semiclassical model - 'photoionization of a K shell electron': it's textbook material, see for example D. Blokhintsev's <Quantum Mechanics>, section 95, pp. 320 - 327 - Springer, 1964.

Although, to be accurate, "photoionization" is not the same as "photoemission/photoelectric" effect. The latter is done on solids and involves electronic bands, rather than electron orbitals of isolated atoms/molecules of the former.

Zz.
 
  • #7
DrDu
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Yes, you can describe this as a scattering of electrons on the periodic classical field.
 

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