Photons associated with magnetic force

Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the nature of the magnetic force and its relationship with photons, particularly in the context of electromagnetic interactions. Participants explore concepts from quantum electrodynamics (QED) and classical electromagnetism, addressing the role of virtual photons and the understanding of magnetic fields.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the presence of photons in the repulsive force experienced when bringing like poles of magnets together, seeking clarification on this interaction.
  • Another participant mentions that the photons involved in QED are "virtual" and do not manifest physically in electrostatic or magnetostatic interactions.
  • A participant expresses uncertainty about the fundamental understanding of how magnets work, suggesting that the nature of fields is still not fully grasped.
  • Another participant asserts that while classical electromagnetism provides a framework for understanding magnets, the transition to QED is mathematically proven, though complex.
  • There is a suggestion that performing calculations is necessary for deeper understanding, indicating that theoretical discussions alone may not suffice.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the understanding of magnetic forces and the role of photons, with some emphasizing the complexity and others asserting established principles from classical electromagnetism. The discussion remains unresolved, with multiple competing perspectives present.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in understanding the fundamental nature of magnetic fields and the implications of virtual photons in QED, indicating that there are unresolved aspects and dependencies on mathematical formalism.

yangonite
Messages
1
Reaction score
0
Hi guys

First of all apologies if my question appears naive or simplistic - new to this field.

I have read that the force carrier for the electromagnetic force is the photon. So I bring the same poles of two magnets together and feel the repulsive force thus produced. I am unaware of any photons associated with this interaction. Can someone explain this.

thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
Hi, and welcome to PF

I'm sure you can find lots of discussions about this already here if you browse. In addition many people will be more qualified than me to explain you. The advice I would give you is to try to make actual calculations by yourself. This business is not trivial.

You may first try to read this[/color]
 
The photons that are used in Quantum Electrodynamics (QED) to derive static force laws are "virtual" and do not appear physically in electrostatics or magnetostatics.
 
yango - we truly have no idea how a magnet works, if that is what you are asking. we do not know what a field is, in practical terms, any more than we know how gravity operates. i posted a question here about how a magnet works a few years ago, just to stir people up - you can read what others had to say here:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=19919&highlight=jnorman
 
jnorman said:
yango - we truly have no idea how a magnet works, if that is what you are asking. we do not know what a field is, in practical terms, any more than we know how gravity operates. i posted a question here about how a magnet works a few years ago, just to stir people up - you can read what others had to say here:
https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=19919&highlight=jnorman

We do know how magnets work from classical electromagnetism, and we do know that QED reduces to Maxwell's EM in the classical limit. From the other discussion, it simply seems that nobody took time to tell you that. It is a mathematically proven fact in principle, and as simply explained by John Baez in the link posted above, we can make explicit calculations, even though they turn out hairy, they are very instructive.

Additionnaly, we can calculate Einstein's equation from the assumption of massless spin-2 boson exchange, an approach Feynman decided to take in his lectures on gravitation. Even more can be made, like calculating explicit metrics from graviton exchange, but here is not the place to discuss this.

Once again, it is just a matter of performing the calculations by yourself if you want to understand and be convinced. All the rest is just words.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 42 ·
2
Replies
42
Views
7K
  • · Replies 8 ·
Replies
8
Views
3K
  • · Replies 29 ·
Replies
29
Views
4K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
2K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
3K
  • · Replies 6 ·
Replies
6
Views
928
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
5K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 20 ·
Replies
20
Views
3K