Photons in Fiber Optics V Solar Sails

[Tony Montana]

Solar sails use the push of photons on a mirror. Would it work to use the push of photons in the atoms in fiber optic cables so the question is would there be push and how much on 1 mile of a space train 50 feet wide with 1 foot thick of fiber optics.

Here's how I think it would be nearly incalculably more efficient than and solar sail and work.

Photons push in atoms fiber optic cables in the direction of travel. At the back of the space train photons hit mirrors that have ~compass shaped magnets behind them that turn push into spin and generate more electricity.

Even in a nuclear blast ~%1 is converted into heat, light, radiation. Nothing is created or destroyed it changes form. 1 photon takes billion of years to freeze...

WILL IT WORK? Does this qualify as an invention? I mostly interested in making a movie about The Space Train and how much better it would be than a solar sail.

How long will it take to estimate how much better it would be than a solar sail?

 

[Drakkith]

No, it won't work. Unless the photons are escaping into free space, there will be no net push on the vehicle.

 

[Tony Montana]

Thank you for the quick answer. Are you sure? Photons eventually exit the front and sides of the space train for laser shielding through the extra energy produced at the back of the space train...

There is push on a solar sail and this pushes both on the atoms in the fiber optic cables AND mirrors at the front AND back of the fiber optic cables. At the back of the space train push is turned into spin and to generate electricity with ~compass shaped magnets behind the mirrors at the back of the space train. Mirrors at the front of the space train at the end of the fiber optic cables do not have compass shaped magnets behind the mirrors that turn push into spin like at the back of the space train. There is push on the mirrors like in a solar sail or see "photonic laser thruster" below. Is there push on the atoms in the fiber optic cable too?

Are you familiar with how solar sails work? Can I get other quick opinions on this please?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photonic_laser_thruster

 

[ZapperZ]

Thank you for the quick answer. Are you sure? Photons eventually exit the front and sides of the space train for laser shielding through the extra energy produced at the back of the space train...

There is push on a solar sail and this pushes both on the atoms in the fiber optic cables AND mirrors at the front AND back of the fiber optic cables. At the back of the space train push is turned into spin and to generate electricity with ~compass shaped magnets behind the mirrors at the back of the space train. Mirrors at the front of the space train at the end of the fiber optic cables do not have compass shaped magnets behind the mirrors that turn push into spin like at the back of the space train. There is push on the mirrors like in a solar sail or see "photonic laser thruster" below. Is there push on the atoms in the fiber optic cable too?

Are you familiar with how solar sails work? Can I get other quick opinions on this please?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photonic_laser_thruster

But what you are proposing to use (optical fiber cables) is extremely inefficient! Why not simply shoot the laser out directly rather than sending it through the optical fiber, which can be lossy?

BTW, the photonic laser thruster link that you cited is not identical to what you want to do, because they amplified the laser in the mirror cavity, something you are not proposing with your optical fiber.

Zz.

 

[Tony Montana]

But what you are proposing to use (optical fiber cables) is extremely inefficient! Why not simply shoot the laser out directly rather than sending it through the optical fiber, which can be lossy?

BTW, the photonic laser thruster link that you cited is not identical to what you want to do, because they amplified the laser in the mirror cavity, something you are not proposing with your optical fiber.

Zz.

Mirrors aren't perfectly flat therefore lasers cannot bounced as many times as they can through fiber optics. 'Lossy?' The energy has to go somewhere. The push on the atoms in the fiber optics is desired like the push of photons on the mirror in the photonic laser thruster. Photons pushing on atoms in the fiber optic cables in the direction of travel and pushing on the compass shaped magnets of opposite polarity behind that mirrors eliminate push at the back of the space train and turn into spin to generate electricity.

A space elevator I was working on made me think of weight and 2 permanent compass shaped magnets of opposite polarity spin when weight is put on them. The push of gravity is the input energy. In the space train it is the push of photons in the fiber optic cables and mirrors at front of the space train that pushed forward and spin of compass shaped magnets (that face each other with opposite polarity) spin when the mirrors at the back of the space train push on them and turn push into spin and electricity.

Photons have a lot of potential energy when moving in a straight line. How many miles can photons travel in space is a question that doesn't need to be answer here. I was planning on using a nuclear reactor that would generate hundreds of millions of watts for LEDS or ~lasers in addition to electricity produced at the back of the space train when the atoms in the fiber optic cables and mirrors at the back of the space train push on the compass shaped magnets that cause them to spin and generate more electricity. Anyone want to help work on this.

 

[ZapperZ]

Photons have a lot of potential energy when moving in a straight line.

This makes zero sense. What exactly is the potential energy of a photon?

How many miles can photons travel in space is a question that doesn't need to be answer here.

In this context, how fast it moves isn't the issue. It's momentum is. Do you want to calculate how much a photon's momentum is for a particular wavelength, and the power you will need to achieve such a motion? Do you think such a power can be transmitted in a fiber optic cable?

Zz.

 

[Tony Montana]

This makes zero sense. What exactly is the potential energy of a photon?
In this context, how fast it moves isn't the issue. It's momentum is. Do you want to calculate how much a photon's momentum is for a particular wavelength, and the power you will need to achieve such a motion? Do you think such a power can be transmitted in a fiber optic cable?

Zz.

I'm not a physicist that's why I'm seeking help in this forum. Energy that can be used to push the atoms on a mirror or in fiber optic cables. Momentum is a better term. Aside from that the physics of solar sails and photon laser thrusters is well understood. There would be push on the mirrors at the front and back of the space train. Would there be push on the atoms in the fiber optics cables too? Another reason to use fiber optics photons in the photonic thruster have only been recycled 1,000 times in the video cause mirrors aren't perfectly flat. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photonic_laser_thruster

 

[anorlunda]

When light is reflected from a mirror (think of a solar sail as a mirror) it goes back the way it came from and it imparts a bit of momentum to the sail. In an optical fiber, you can reflect light off the near end, but then it is no longer traveling through the fiber. The light can't do both; being reflected back and continuing forward through the fiber. That is why this idea won't work even a little bit.

 

[sophiecentaur]

I'm not a physicist

That's absolutely fine but you should accept that your ideas are not valid when you are told, by Physicists, that they are not. Without going into the details of the Physics, there is no way of telling you where you are wrong. If you learn some Physics then you would understand where (and you wouldn't be asking your question because you would know it's a non-starter). (A bit Catch 22)
PF is a very boring and sickeningly realistic Forum in which Fiction is not part of the discussions. Word salad doesn't constitute Rocket Science and your suggestions contain a set of non related ideas. Your Wiki link on laser thrusters doesn't 'extend' in the way that you seem to suggest.

 

[anorlunda]

I think the OP has the answer to his question.

Thread closed.