Physical interpretation of the Hamiltonian

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the physical interpretation of the Hamiltonian and its relationship to the Lagrangian, particularly in the context of the Euler-Lagrange equation. Participants explore theoretical aspects and interpretations related to classical mechanics and the principle of least action.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the Hamiltonian is used as the value to be extremized in the Euler-Lagrange equation, questioning the physical interpretation of this extremization.
  • Another participant corrects the first by noting that (T - V) is the Lagrangian, suggesting that the Lagrangian and Hamiltonian are closely related.
  • A participant references an article by Hanc and Taylor that aims to provide an intuitive understanding of the principle of least action, indicating a lack of innovative sources on the physical interpretation of the Lagrangian.
  • One participant introduces Feynman's path-integral formulation of quantum mechanics as a potential intuitive explanation for Hamilton's principle, discussing the classical limit and its relation to the stationary-phase approximation.
  • A later reply expresses satisfaction in finding the information they were seeking.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the Hamiltonian and Lagrangian, with some corrections and references to external sources. The discussion does not reach a consensus on the physical interpretation of these concepts.

Contextual Notes

There are references to external articles and discussions that may contain additional interpretations or insights, but these are not universally accepted or agreed upon within the thread.

zush
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When dealing with the Euler-Lagrange equation in a physical setting, one usually uses the Hamiltonian L=T-V as the value to be extremized. What is the physical interpretation of the extremizing of this value?
 
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zush said:
When dealing with the Euler-Lagrange equation in a physical setting, one usually uses the Hamiltonian L=T-V as the value to be extremized. What is the physical interpretation of the extremizing of this value?

Actually, (T - V) is the Lagrangian.
It doesn't matter all that much, the Lagrangian and the Hamiltonian are very closely related

As to the Lagrangian (T - V), Here is what I replied in a thread from january 2010:

Try reading the article "www.eftaylor.com/pub/ActionFromConsEnergy.pdf"[/URL][/u] written by Jozef Hanc and Edwin F. Taylor.
They're putting in a serious effort to build up to an intuitive understanding of the principle.
There's more where that came from, the authors have collaborated on several other articles. Links to those articles are available on the [u][PLAIN]http://eftaylor.com/leastaction.html"
page on Taylor's website.



In november 2010 I posted a discussion in a thread where someone asked https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=443711"
The physical interpretation stuff is in post #10 of that thread.

I believe that discussion is good, but of course you must make your own judgement.
An expanded version of that discussion is in the http://www.cleonis.nl/physics/phys256/least_action.php" article on my own website.

When it comes to physical interpretation of the Lagrangian there are very few sources. I get the impression that textbook authors copy what earlier authors have written. That's not necessarily bad, but there's no innovation, I think.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Although I learned yesterday, that it is not allowed to answer with quantum theory in the classical-physics section of this forum, I cannot resist to mention that one possible very intuitive "explanation" for the validity of Hamilton's principle comes from Feynman's path-integral formulation of quantum mechanics. Here, the classical limit is given by the stationary-phase approximation of the path integral. I.e., if the action becomes large compared to \hbar, the path integral is well approximated by consdering only the trajectories in phase space, which are very close to the classical trajectory.

The Lagrangian formulation follows then for a often applicable special case, where the Hamiltonian is quadratic in the canonical momenta with space independent coefficients.
 
thank you I found what I was looking for
 

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