Physics Physicists and physics majors, was it worth it?

[sophiecentaur]

Do not look down on arts/humanities degrees.

I am not "looking down" on them. I just see so many of those graduates having to take low status and initially boring jobs and needing to pull themselves up through the hierarchy, not using any of what they learned during their degree course - except possibly being able to write competently. That's something that can be missing with Engineering and Science graduates.
This contrasts even with many 'holiday jobs' in Science and Engineering establishments where even school students get to experience real life Science. I had a job delivering Cornish Cream Products at a little dairy when I was about eighteen. I got to do actual fat content tests on actual cream samples to determine if they were in spec to be sold. I felt like a real Scientist. Better than counting paper clips in an ordinary office job.
I just thought. No one seems to have brought up the idea of Teaching as a career. ?

 

[pi-r8]

Disagree - the general public has a very high view of those capable of getting the degree. It's just hard to actually employ them because they are missing critical skills necessary for operating in the 21st century.

Admittedly, it's hard to tell. Most Physics BS programs are stuck in the 1960's (at best). My contention is that if they updated their curriculum we would see a different outcome, but since most of them seem to take an unusual pride in how backwards the education there is, it's tough to know.

How would you modernize it? I don't see a lot of cases where a company has a job position for a "physicist" and they can't fill it because "these young people just don't know enough modern physics!" They'll have jobs for programmers or statisticians, and I'm sure you could help the physics students get those jobs by teaching them more programming or statistics. But the students who really want to do real physics research as a career wouldn't like it, and the rest would wonder why they're not simply majoring in CS/statistics/Data Science.

 

[pi-r8]

I am not "looking down" on them. I just see so many of those graduates having to take low status and initially boring jobs and needing to pull themselves up through the hierarchy, not using any of what they learned during their degree course - except possibly being able to write competently. That's something that can be missing with Engineering and Science graduates.
This contrasts even with many 'holiday jobs' in Science and Engineering establishments where even school students get to experience real life Science. I had a job delivering Cornish Cream Products at a little dairy when I was about eighteen. I got to do actual fat content tests on actual cream samples to determine if they were in spec to be sold. I felt like a real Scientist. Better than counting paper clips in an ordinary office job.
I just thought. No one seems to have brought up the idea of Teaching as a career. ?

I'm glad you were able to get a "real" science job at 18. Seems like most jobs like that in physics would be either automated or done by professional engineers these days though.

Teaching is a fine career, and I agree that's something that's pretty in-demand and could require a physics degree. But I still wouldn't call it being a physicist. I think most physics students imagine themselves *doing* physics, specifically some sort of cutting-edge research. Teaching basic physics to teenagers is just a completely different job, and not one that most of us would be any good at. And it often requires some sort of education degree too.

 

[Rika]

I am not "looking down" on them. I just see so many of those graduates having to take low status and initially boring jobs and needing to pull themselves up through the hierarchy, not using any of what they learned during their degree course - except possibly being able to write competently. That's something that can be missing with Engineering and Science graduates.
This contrasts even with many 'holiday jobs' in Science and Engineering establishments where even school students get to experience real life Science. I had a job delivering Cornish Cream Products at a little dairy when I was about eighteen. I got to do actual fat content tests on actual cream samples to determine if they were in spec to be sold. I felt like a real Scientist. Better than counting paper clips in an ordinary office job.
I just thought. No one seems to have brought up the idea of Teaching as a career. ?

Good for you but most physics majors won't use physics knowledge in their jobs too. Most programming or "city" jobs don't need physics knowledge at all. You use physics when you work as engineer but it's hard to become one without degree. And if you work in social media marketing it's not boring at all so it's not like there are only "office jobs" after humanities. The point is it's hard to use physics in your career after physics major.

 

[Crass_Oscillator]

A BS in physics isn't going to render you competent enough to do almost anything involving actual physics in industry. Any serious engineering company has applied physicists on staff with degrees from various departments, but almost all of them have PhD's.

If you want a job doing physics, get a PhD doing device physics, materials physics, fluid mechanics etc.

 

[sophiecentaur]

Good for you but most physics majors won't use physics knowledge in their jobs too.

Of course not. But the thing about Physics is that it promotes an attitude to problem solving that makes well educated Physicists flexible enough to deal with any problem. If yours is the sort of mind that can cope with QM, most other 'complicated' problems are very manageable.

I'm glad you were able to get a "real" science job at 18. Seems like most jobs like that in physics would be either automated or done by professional engineers these days though.

The Engineering Research Department I worked in for 24 years provided work experience posts for students from A level to University and I can tell you that every one of the students I knew were given real tasks that challenged their individual abilities. There was no shortage of interesting problems to deal with.

Most Physics BS programs are stuck in the 1960's (at best). My contention is that if they updated their curriculum we would see a different outcome,

It's hard to find the optimum path through this one. The fact is that Physics is an ever widening field and a basic Physics course cannot cover more than a fraction. School Physics has tried to include 'interesting' topics to such an extent that the basics have already been glossed over. No one accepts deferred gratification so sophisticated topics are taught without giving students the tools to deal with them. Pictorial explanations and simulations are expected to be enough. Consequently, the first year at University has to be a 'Foundation' year. So, in something like four ten week terms (or equivalent) they have to deliver all the basics of a very hard subject. You can't afford to deliver the body of recent Physics if you want students to be in a position to cope with what they're being told about.
How can it be that a brief course about say, quantum entanglement can do anything really useful for a student who is still having problems with the Copenhagen Interpretation.
In my opinion, a Physics Course from the 60's could in fact almost provide a modern job seeker with the skills needed for many modern jobs - if you add knowledge of some of the more modern Maths Tools and include some knowledge the fundamental particles that have since emerged.

 

[jfmcghee]

I'll chime in here for the high school teacher perspective.

Was the physics degree worth it for me? Absolutely. Would I have chosen it under different circumstances? Possibly, but I think that I may have been disappointed with the result because while it was relatively easy to find a teaching position (with no teaching degree or experience), there were considerably fewer private opportunities.

I knew from childhood that I would end up teaching, coming from a family of teachers, but I knew that I would pursue it as a second career. When I joined the military I knew I had found my first career. When I got the chance to become an officer, I knew that I could pick whatever degree I wanted because no matter what I was going to be shipped back to the fleet. So I chose physics because it is what I loved since before high school physics, I wouldn't have to worry about finding a civilian job with it, and it would give me an edge getting into flight school (which immediately made the degree worth it.)

When my flying career came to an end, the physics degree became incredibly useful in that I didn't even have to leave the last town I was stationed near. The local high school was looking for a physics teacher and that's what I wanted to do. There were loads of physics positions open all over the area, so it wasn't just good fortune. Of course I'm not a practicing physicist, but I get to talk with students all day about the subject I love. For my situation I can't imagine a more worthwhile degree.

 

[CH WILSON]

If physics is what you are interested in it isn't a waste of time. That said it might be a waste of money here in the US but somehow I doubt it.

I joke however that if I had it to do over again rather than put my daughter through college I would buy her a road grader or some similar piece of heavy equipment figuring this would be a job that couldn't be outsourced. But it could be automated...

 

[Charles Link]

I'm currently retired, but I am very happy I took the route of physics that I did. Other professions perhaps have better pay, but I simply could not have done it any other way. Doing calculations is what I wanted to do.

 

[CrysPhys]

I joke however that if I had it to do over again rather than put my daughter through college I would buy her a road grader or some similar piece of heavy equipment figuring this would be a job that couldn't be outsourced. But it could be automated...

Actually, not so far away. I once drafted an extensive patent application portfolio for a company specializing in control systems for construction equipment, including power shovels, bulldozers ... and motorgraders. Skilled operators are hard to come by, so the goal is to automate operations as much as possible.

 

[Zap]

If you study physics, unless you are the best of the best, you are going to make your life a living nightmare.

 

[sophiecentaur]

If you study physics, unless you are the best of the best, you are going to make your life a living nightmare.

Things may have changed a bit since I was a lad but when I started with Physics (a modest 2.2 BSc), in an Engineering establishment, it was as useful as the Engineering degrees that other trainees had.
I think your view must be the result of a disappointing experience.

 

[Zap]

Yes. I am having a bit of trouble. I think it's a lot harder these days to cross over into engineering with a physics degree. Physics degrees aren't ABET accredited. I don't see any reason why an employer would choose a physicist over an engineer. I think that a physics degree is probably just as useful as engineering in that it prepares you for job training in a technical field, but it seems like employers don't share the same perspective.

At my school's career fair, I tried speaking with two companies who rejected me right away just for not having an engineering degree. Because my degree is in chemistry and physics, I tried speaking with ExxonMobile, and they immediately told me they were not interested upon hearing that I did not have an engineering degree. They didn't want to hear anything else I had to say about it. The other company was a nuclear power plant. They told me they are hiring mechanical and electrical engineers. If you do not have that degree, we cannot help you.

I've probably applied to around 100 jobs, and I haven't received a single interview. The only job offer I got was for 12 dollars an hour at some THC extraction lab as a technician. It didn't require an interview. I couldn't take it, because I have no money to relocate and at 12 an hour what would be the point? I applied to the military, but there is an incident on my medical record, and they basically told me to find another career. I'm basically pulling my hair out right now.

Maybe the issue is with me and not my degree. I don't know. At this point, I have about 4 years of laboratory research experience at my school. It's not the best experience, but it's something. I wasn't able to publish anything, because most of what we do is related to commercial instruments or government projects. I graduated with a 3.66. It's not the best, but it's descent. It should be enough for an entry level job. I'm not sure if pursuing more education is a wise idea, either. I'm turning 30 next year, and I don't have any money. It seems like I dug myself into a hole. I'm still trying, but I couldn't have imagined it would be this difficult.

 

[Locrian]

Maybe the issue is with me and not my degree.

What's the difference at this point, really? It's not like the degree chose you, or that it happened by accident. Don't get me wrong, you were probably lied to along the way - despite hand waving in this forum about the degree being not a "vocational" one, almost every physics degree website contains glowing remarks about the employment prospects, and you probably had vague assurances from people you trusted that everything would be okay. (And they're probably right, just not in the way you thought).

But still, we've been having the same stories being told in this forum about how awful the degree is for over a decade. More importantly, we've had people proudly expressing how much the degree isn't meant to make you employable for over a decade - and that should be a pretty clear signal. All the info you needed to avoid this problem was available, and this is still where you're at. Don't let that bother you too much, you're in good company here - or at least some kind of company ;)

So starting now, decide to do something different. On the downside, you are probably light in skills considered useful in the modern economy. On the upside, a physics degree is difficult to get, generally well regarded, and the mathematical background can serve as a platform for many other successful careers. Time to start networking, identifying new routes, and testing new paths. Ask around this forum for where people went after a BS in physics and see if any of them work for you. Most won't, but you only need one that will. You're not going to get a single viable solution, but you may get a solution pool from which you can find an avenue towards success.

You've probably considered some alternate routes, but how well did you explore them? Did you know how people get employed in those careers? I think it's great you've sent 100 resumes - next is to make sure you sent the right 100 resumes for the right 100 positions.

Message me if you have any questions I can help with, and I wish you the very best in your journey.

 

[Zap]

I was studying chemistry and about to graduate. I felt miserable about being a chemical technician, and I wasn't interested enough in the subject to pursue graduate school, so I switched to physics thinking it would be different. I thought posts like this were coming from people who got terrible grades or did zero research or extracurricular stuff during their degree. I didn't think it would happen to me, but here I am.

In my search, I've come across some amazing opportunities for people with a Bachelor of Science in chemistry and physics, but so far no one has shown any interest. They are probably super competitive. I know I should have been looking for a job way sooner. I should have been looking before I went to school, but you know how it is. Everyone is pushing you to go, for whatever reason. If I didn't go, I'd probably still be working at Walmart. So, whatever, the alternative wasn't very lucrative, either.

I'm currently in an MS physics program. I just went because I asked the department head where I can find a job, and he told me he would hire me as a TA if I applied to the grad school. I'm not sure if that was a good idea. I've pretty much hated the entire time I've been in the program. I can barely make ends meet, but I'm finished by May 2019. I had been applying to jobs hoping I could drop out and start working, but no one took me. Do you think an MS in EE is a good idea, considering my age? The university of louisville has the only ABET accredited MS program in EE in existence, and it doesn't seem like a hard school to get into. If I really can't find a good job with a physics degree, that may be a path to getting there.

Your advice is good. I am searching every day for something.

 

[Choppy]

If you study physics, unless you are the best of the best, you are going to make your life a living nightmare.

If you're looking for advice on a job-hunt after having completed a physics degree, maybe it would be better not to start out with such confrontational statements.

Yes, getting a job with a physics degree can be a challenge, particularly when you're comparing your experience against other professionally-oriented programs like engineering. But it's not impossible. Here are a couple tips:

Present yourself professionally at all times... even when you are seemingly anonymous online. The first reaction I have when I see a statement such as that above is to either ignore it, or argue against it, not to figure out if I can help the person on the other end get a job. I am someone who is sometimes on hiring committees that hire BSc-level physics graduates. Others on this forum may be in similar situations. I'm not saying we can all get you jobs. But you never know when you're cutting off potential leads.

100 applications is a lot not to hear back from any of them. If the shotgun approach isn't working, maybe you need to try something different. If there's a particular field you're trying to get into, maybe you can try to attend a conference in your area. Or perhaps you could try to land a job shadow. Talk as much as you can with people that are working in that field. They might not be in positions to hire, but may no others who are. And which jobs to avoid. And which hoops you need to jump through.

 

[Zap]

I'm going to try to talk to one of my professors next week. I have been trying the networking route. It's still tough, though.

Thanks for your advice. I appreciate your response.

I think perhaps my qualifications aren't stellar or I'm not presenting myself appropriately. I can email my resume, if anyone is interested. I work in an instrument development lab, but my main role has been analyzing data. That kind of happened randomly and it forced me to acquire some skills in it. I really like creating programs that can analyze large and multiple sets of data. I like the problem solving and spatial thinking required to create a program to do what you want. I would love to get into an analyst type position equally as much as an R&D type position. My chemistry background also allows me to apply to some jobs in manufacturing, which I also think sounds interesting. I like the idea of process optimization.

I also still like chemistry and physics. I applied to a job in molecular spectroscopy which sounded amazing. There was also a job involving diamond anvil cell measurements that only required a master's degree which also sounded amazing. I also have a minor in biochemistry and worked in a molecular biology lab for one summer.

I've found a good amount of careers that I would feel elated getting started in, but so far I've not had any luck getting my foot in the door.

 

[Umaxo]

So much bad experiences in here:(...
Just to balance, i add my:

I don't know about some random physics degree from noname village university, but at least one physics degree from one particular university in my country i studied at has very high worth (and the university is for free, anyone can apply and will be automaticly accepted and all the proffesors do the best they can to help their students pass). It seems to me, it depends more on the university than the "physics" adjective.

Just one example from my experience:
I recently graduated from theoretical physics (actually it was 2 months ago), which took me (together with some break when i was - so to say - "looking for myself") 8 years against usual 5. My only noticeable work experience was research in numerical quantum chemistry, i was not very good programmer and all together my applicable skills were almost null.

However, i sent my c.v. to few companies and 2 days later i got invited to my first interview for acturial mathematician job. I succesfully managed to demonstrate i don't know anything, when my future boss gave me very simple task in excel. I was not able to do it at all, i just starred at the sheet for few minutes and that was it. And they took me. And for - what i consider - very, very good pay.

After that i got invited to few more interviews, at every one of them they looked impressed simply by my degree and all of them knew i don't have any actuall skill. The interviews felt like they were trying to sell their company to me instead of me trying to sell myself to them.

So i have very very good experiences with my physics degree and so does everyone i know from the same faculty.

 

[Zap]

You are very lucky or very smart. I have blamed my university countless of times, but at the end of the day, I chose to go there and I have to deal with my current situation and find a way to move forward. Felt like they fed me to the wolves once I graduated, so to speak. Congratulations on starting your career.

 

[Zap]

I may have an opportunity to work for a start up. The salary is not fantastic, but the work they are doing is interesting. It seemed like they were ready to hire anyone.

 

[ZapperZ]

I will go back to the very beginning and answer the question in the topic:

Physicists and physics majors, was it worth it?

My answer: Absolutely, Definitely, 100% YES!

Zz.

 

[Zap]

#170's advice is okay. <Mentor note: the post that was #170 is now deleted, due to its violation of forum rules> When searching for a job, you need to step outside of academia and start thinking more like a business person. It really is all about networking and charisma. You need to leave your stupid little textbooks behind, get out of the house and start meeting important people. Unless you graduate from an IV league school, if all you do is write a resume with your physics degree, high GPA and some irrelevant research experience on it, you ain't going to go anywhere.

This start up company I mentioned has zero jobs posted online. If I didn't skip my class, get off my ass and start talking to people, I would have never had a chance to apply.

It's also a good idea to go to the gym. I know half of you physics majors look like women.

 

[symbolipoint]

Zap, maybe I misunderstood the intended message from post #170. One should study hard, make good choices among any advice given, and learn things which would be useful or important to employers, in case just the minimum Physics degree does not provide it. When one looks for employment one will need to talk to and interact with people.

 

[Zap]

What does a physics major learn that is useful to employers, besides the very basics like some mathematical and problem solving ability? I think I have more to offer employers based on the person I am rather than this dumb degree.

 

[ZapperZ]

What does a physics major learn that is useful to employers, besides the very basics like some mathematical and problem solving ability? I think I have more to offer employers based on the person I am rather than this dumb degree.

And what have your sparkling personality gotten you so far?

Zz.

 

[Zap]

I don't mean my personality, but absolutely nowhere

 

[ZapperZ]

I don't mean my personality, but absolutely nowhere

Then you have nothing to base on to claim that you, as a person, has more to offer to employers than your "dumb degree".

Zz.

 

[Zap]

Of course I do. I am aware that I’m not a very charasmatic person, and my personality is most of the time weird and introverted. However, I do believe that I am a fast learner, creative, artistic and a leader in the sense that I enjoy developing or expanding on ideas. That got me through a chemistry and physics degree. It is not the result of the degree. I'm not saying I'm a big shot, and I know people who are smarter and harder working than I, but I know that not everyone could have done that. I knew people who were repeating remedial mathematics for the third time in a row or dropped out because they couldn't do it.

 

[ZapperZ]

Of course I do. I am aware that I’m not a very charasmatic person, and my personality is most of the time weird and introverted. However, I do believe that I am a fast learner, creative, artistic and a leader in the sense that I enjoy developing or expanding on ideas. That got me through a chemistry and physics degree. It is not the result of the degree. I'm not saying I'm a big shot, but I know that not everyone could have done that.

You don't seem to get it.

You claim that you have more to offer an employer than your degree. I claim that you have no evidence to support this, since you haven't had a meaningful employment yet. What you wrote above is speculation, which is a dime a dozen. Furthermore, you are not the best person to evaluate whether you are a good fit to an employer. I would not have hired you, because you seem to blame everyone and everything else for your bitterness.

Zz.

 

[symbolipoint]

Zap,

You have a degree in I lost track in what; and either you and your degree are useful to an employer or are not useful to an employer. You and prospective employers want to determine, what can you do for the employer that the employer wants done or needs done. Your laboratory instruction may be much too limited to let you figure how you have any lab related value, but any longer term activity might allow you some way to gain on understanding yourself and what you might like to accomplish. Are you or can you become a technician? Did you solve any specific problems with processes or with equipment which if you share, might be thrilling for your employment prospect to know?

 

[Zap]

I was saying that completing my degree is evidence that I have some competency that not everyone has, but I don't think my degree gave me that competency. It is part of who I am. If I completed a project or did something meaningful, it was because of me, not my degree. That is my opinion.

And that's all I have to offer an employer, myself, because I don't have a developed skill like programming, or project management, or something like that. I've essentially been a lab technician for three and a half years (I'm an RA), but I don't think following SOPs is a skill. I managed to teach myself how to use a program they gave me and a little bit of programming, which allowed me to analyze a lot of data, but it's not much. I can say that my degree has given me a lot of background information that might allow me to learn at a faster rate than someone who didn't go to college, but it's a tough sell, and there's a lot of competition, even for technician jobs.

I'm shooting for this start up company tomorrow. I would be excited to work there, and I am interested in the product they are developing, but I don't know what I have to offer other than that. I am hoping that they are desperate enough for employees to give me a break. The position is related to data science. I know they are looking for CS and EE grads, and I know it's a long shot. I just had the idea of volunteering for the company to get some experience. I can walk to their headquarters. It's a 20 minute walk, but that's a short distance for walking. (Notice how we use time to describe distance?) I honestly hate graduate school. I pretty much hate physics now, and I don't enjoy my thesis project outside of learning Python. I only have one more worthless class to take, but honestly I'd take dropping out for a bit of real non-lab experience over the stupid master's degree. All I need is 12 dollars a day to buy McDonald's. Heck, I saw a homeless guy chillin outside the headquarters the other day. I wish I had 12 dollars. I would buy about two pounds of McDonald's. All I really need is McDonald's. I might consider applying there. I used to work at Burger King. I got all the cheeseburgers I wanted. Those were honestly better times, simpler times. I was making like 400 bucks a month. Rent was 200 bucks. I had all the cheeseburgers I wanted. I had to steal them, but they were free nonetheless. No debt. No obligations. I didn't have enough money for television, but I was care free, only worrying about my next cheeseburger. I still love Burger King and McDonald's. You can't make chicken or burgers taste the same at home. They got polydimethylsiloxane in the chicken nuggets, and who knows what else. It is very tasty.

 

[Zap]

Everyday is a struggle. I need to vent to someone. My family thinks I am not getting a job because I'm simply not trying. They also don't realize how draining and miserable grad school is. I know it's not this way for some, but it is for me. I'm just taking it one day at a time. Everyday is a brainstorm of how I can get out of this, who do I need to talk to, where should I be looking, what should I be looking for, what are my qualifications, what should I be working on. I wasn't looking for jobs on physics forum. It didn't cross my mind.

 

[ZapperZ]

Everyday is a struggle. I need to vent to someone. My family thinks I am not getting a job because I'm simply not trying. They also don't realize how draining and miserable grad school is. I know it's not this way for some, but it is for me. I'm just taking it one day at a time. Everyday is a brainstorm of how I can get out of this, who do I need to talk to, where should I be looking, what should I be looking for, what are my qualifications, what should I be working on. I wasn't looking for jobs on physics forum. It didn't cross my mind.

It is irresponsible and a misuse of resources to use PF as a place for you to vent. You are disguising your venting as “advice” to someone seeking answers to question like this.

Go elsewhere to vent. You need a psychiatrist, or a baby sitter, whichever is more appropriate.

Zz.

 

[symbolipoint]

Everyday is a struggle. I need to vent to someone. My family thinks I am not getting a job because I'm simply not trying. They also don't realize how draining and miserable grad school is. I know it's not this way for some, but it is for me. I'm just taking it one day at a time. Everyday is a brainstorm of how I can get out of this, who do I need to talk to, where should I be looking, what should I be looking for, what are my qualifications, what should I be working on. I wasn't looking for jobs on physics forum. It didn't cross my mind.

This just reminds us that a degree in Physics is an education for gaining understanding, but not for job training. A degree in Engineering is more for job training. You might try to compare this to earning a degree in Chemistry, again which is an education for gaining understanding, but again is not specifically intended as job training. Some people had at least some courses from Engineering and computerization skills, which more likely will make such students more marketable and therefore are more appealing to prospective employers. The more specifically you can tell the employers what you can do for them, the better for you in actually finding employment. This was one of the things motivating the earlier question about "what vocational education or training did you have which was useful in getting or doing a job...".

 

[symbolipoint]

It is irresponsible and a misuse of resources to use PF as a place for you to vent. You are disguising your venting as “advice” to someone seeking answers to question like this.

Go elsewhere to vent. You need a psychiatrist, or a baby sitter, whichever is more appropriate.

Zz.

That is the more pessimistic way to view Zap's discussion. Mine, in post #183 might be more in line with maybe Zap should consider that he might need other skills and knowledge which may come from going back to school for one or two terms in order to learn something practical. Or he should take whatever job in Physics or Chemistry he can find, and be sure he can later identify what he learned from it. Otherwise, he needs to find a job; ANY JOB.

 

[ZapperZ]

That is the more pessimistic way to view Zap's discussion. Mine, in post #183 might be more in line with maybe Zap should consider that he might need other skills and knowledge which may come from going back to school for one or two terms in order to learn something practical. Or he should take whatever job in Physics or Chemistry he can find, and be sure he can later identify what he learned from it. Otherwise, he needs to find a job; ANY JOB.

He has a pessimistic view of what he can do with his “dumb major”. I’m simply following along the path he has set for himself.

Zz.

 

[ZeGato]

Everyday is a struggle. I need to vent to someone. My family thinks I am not getting a job because I'm simply not trying. They also don't realize how draining and miserable grad school is. I know it's not this way for some, but it is for me. I'm just taking it one day at a time. Everyday is a brainstorm of how I can get out of this, who do I need to talk to, where should I be looking, what should I be looking for, what are my qualifications, what should I be working on. I wasn't looking for jobs on physics forum. It didn't cross my mind.

I would tell you to focus on finishing your grad school for now, and see if that helps you finding a job afterward. If it doesn't, there are many jobs out there that don't require an engineering degree, such as anything in Data Science and many jobs in programming (which seems like something you'd enjoy based on your posts). I would make a list of such jobs in your area, and their requirements, and get training based on what would be useful (you could even start before finishing grad school, if you got the time). You could get training by taking some affordable online courses (which is perfectly fine for data science and programming), and by looking for internships that some companies offer.

In the meantime, you'll probably have to get through by having a crappy job to make ends meet; it sucks, but that's life. Keep your head straight - competence shines through eventually. Good luck.

 

[Zap]

I realized today that a minimum wage job would be a 20k salary where I am. That's almost double what I'm making as an RA. We don't get tuition waivers here, and the tuition is almost half of the stipend. So, if I end up with a minimum wage job, I'd actually be moving up. I think I'd be okay with that. My brother can get me a job working in construction that pays 30k. I'll be a laborer, but that's just about how much a chemist makes. I could try and teach myself programming in the meantime. I'm still going to head over to that tech startup to see if I can volunteer in data science. I decided to wait until after the holiday week in hopes of catching the dude I spoke with about the company. If they hire me, that would be awesome, but I would be happy gaining experience in my free time. I'm going to try to chill out.

 

[Hypercube]

I am a 30 year old man, with geophysics background. During my undergraduate studies, I have mainly supported myself by working casually as a tutor for my university. The fact that I graduated allowed me to get hired by my university to teach a physics class at sub-bachelor level (think high school level). I now hold a permanent part-time role, earning enough so that I can support myself and my little sister, who is studying to become an engineer. This is all thanks to the wonderful people who have helped me on my journey. Was my degree worth it? Hell yeah!

I won't stop there. Once my sister graduates (and I bridge the geophysics-physics difference), I will start applying to grad schools worldwide. I have a world to conquer!

Spoiler

On a side-note, I spoke to my Physics 101 professor the other day, who was surprised not to see me making money at Chevron, ExxonMobile, etc. I told him, I'm dirt-poor, but beyond happy!

For the first time in life, I have perfect clarity. Why physics, you ask? Because it is my calling. This is what I was born to do.

 

[Zap]

You must not live in the United States

Spoiler

Being able to support yourself and your sister is not dirt poor.

 

[Zap]

What did you guys do to get a job? I don't mean a job in physics, but any decent career path?

 

[Hypercube]

What did you guys do to get a job? I don't mean a job in physics, but any decent career path?

With physics degree, you can do much better than Burger King, I can tell you that much. You just need a game plan; you need to demonstrate that you understand the issues their business is facing, and explain how you would handle such issues, or why you are the right guy for the job.

Here is an example. If I was applying for a teller job in a bank, I would premeditate the following (for interview situation):

Unlike Harvey Norman or Target who sell physical products their customers can see and touch, your products are financial and abstract. It is therefore crucial that your customers understand what it is that they are signing up for. As a maths and physics tutor throughout my undergraduate years, I've been communicating the difference between simple interest and compound interest to kids and mature-age students alike for years. In this time, I have learned to communicate clearly to a wide range of personality types, I have sufficient technical background, etc.. (you get the idea).What you want to say: I am smart. Hire me.
What you actually say: Well, in my free time, I like to read books. My favourite topics are philosophy, formal logic and books on self-improvement. I'm reading Bertrand Russell at the moment, and finding it... (etc..)

What you want to say: I share your values.
What you actually do: Research them and ask yourself if you do, in fact, share their values. If you do, write down a situation where you have exemplified such value.

There is huge amount of resources online regarding how to find a job. You may even wish to get a book, such as https://www.amazon.com/dp/0958104107/?tag=pfamazon01-20, or something similar. Abandon the "system is rigged" attitude, and adapt to whatever life throws at you.

Also, this advice:

You need a psychiatrist

You may wish to take it seriously. As in - consider getting professional help. If you are currently filled with negativity, people that interview you will be able to sense it. Your first attempt in generating positive energy should be getting enough sleep, healthy diet, and exercise. If all that fails - yes, drugs. Anti-depressants, or whatever your doctor thinks best. Think of it as a temporary solution, to help you break free of that cycle.

Good luck, buddy.

 

[Zap]

That was pretty good advice. Thank you. However, a psychiatrist is not going to fix my problems, and neither is a positive attitude. I need a job, and I need to get out of this school. It should be apparent that I am not able to afford a doctor, anyway. I don't have the money or patience for graduate school. It is extremely difficult to focus on schoolwork while I am in constant anxiety about finding employment. I'm not in danger of failing, but I'm definitely not excelling. I can't excel at something that I've lost value in.

Once exams are out of the way, I can focus on more important things, like jobs again. I spent enough time on my resume to feel pretty confident about it, but I think my cover letters are still lacking. Your example was very helpful.

 

[Locrian]

What did you guys do to get a job? I don't mean a job in physics, but any decent career path?

My path out was through actuarial exams.

 

[gmax137]

What did you guys do to get a job? I don't mean a job in physics, but any decent career path?

My path out was through actuarial exams.

my path was masters in nuclear engineering, but that was 40 years ago. things are different now.

 

[Hypercube]

It should be apparent that I am not able to afford a doctor, anyway.

I am not from the US, so I am unable to comment on US health care system. One of my American acquaintances once summarised it If you're not rich, you're f****d. Hopefully it's not as bad as that.
Doesn't university pay for it though? I thought universities pay for health insurance when they bring overseas graduate students? Or do they only pay for international students?

I don't have the money or patience for graduate school.

Due to a number of reasons, I won't be able to enter grad school for the next 3 years. Just goes to show how one man's heaven is another man's hell. Why are you not enjoying your work as RA? If you had money, what would you rather be doing that would make your life meaningful? Oil & Gas? Maximising returns for the shareholders?

Are you good at teaching? If grad school is not for you, you could always get a quick certificate in education and become a school teacher, or something like that...? Spend 3-4 years working to financially and emotionally "recover". You can always go back to grad school at some point in the future? (Just a thought.)

 

[Zap]

Some universities provide health insurance, not all. The one I attend does not. I don't have a need for a doctor, anyway. I'm not terminally ill. I need more money for basic expenses. I've not even thought about health insurance.

My RA work seems meaningless. I don't see it helping me get a job. Therefore, it's useless. I'd rather be doing something more creative, like developing a program or building something. If I'm not graphing stuff, I'm injecting stuff into a tube. I mainly follow protocols, and that's pretty much it. I do a lot of clock watching and trying to find a way out. I've honestly been trying to find a way out of this lab since I started three and a half years ago. Somehow, I never get the balls to just apply to Walmart or something, and I fool myself into thinking this "research" experience will somehow pay off. So, I've been stuck in it. For whatever reason, I wasn't able to find funding anywhere else, and like I said, I never got the balls to just apply to a minimum wage job as a way out, which would actually pay more. I've applied to internships, but I think my credentials are just not that great. I went to the startup company today, but they weren't interested. Forgive me but I don't see a bright future ahead.

My advisor also randomly loses funding, forgets or intentionally doesn't pay me. I haven't been paid for over a month. It's a fricken nightmare. I don't know how much longer of this I can handle. I already reported him to the university, but he's still doing it. I can't imagine a worse situation to be in. I picked a god awful advisor who gives no direction, has zero networks, does useless and outdated research and randomly decides not to pay me. I don't know what I'm going to do.

I don't pursue the teaching thing, because I don't want to go to school anymore. I've applied to teach in other countries, because they don't require certification, but I didn't have any luck.

 

[StatGuy2000]

[QUOTE="Zap, post: 6098664, member: 647625"]Some universities provide health insurance, not all. The one I attend does not. I don't have a need for a doctor, anyway. I'm not terminally ill. I need more money for basic expenses. I've not even thought about health insurance.

My RA work seems meaningless. I don't see it helping me get a job. Therefore, it's useless. I'd rather be doing something more creative, like developing a program or building something. If I'm not graphing stuff, I'm injecting stuff into a tube. I mainly follow protocols, and that's pretty much it. I do a lot of clock watching and trying to find a way out. I've honestly been trying to find a way out of this lab since I started three and a half years ago. Somehow, I never get the balls to just apply to Walmart or something, and I fool myself into thinking this "research" experience will somehow pay off. So, I've been stuck in it. For whatever reason, I wasn't able to find funding anywhere else, and like I said, I never got the balls to just apply to a minimum wage job as a way out, which would actually pay more. I've applied to internships, but I think my credentials are just not that great. I went to the startup company today, but they weren't interested. Forgive me but I don't see a bright future ahead.

My advisor also randomly loses funding, forgets or intentionally doesn't pay me. I haven't been paid for over a month. It's a fricken nightmare. I don't know how much longer of this I can handle. I already reported him to the university, but he's still doing it. I can't imagine a worse situation to be in. I picked a god awful advisor who gives no direction, has zero networks, does useless and outdated research and randomly decides not to pay me. I don't know what I'm going to do.

I don't pursue the teaching thing, because I don't want to go to school anymore. I've applied to teach in other countries, because they don't require certification, but I didn't have any luck.[/QUOTE]

[USER=647625]@Zap , how close are you to completing your MS in physics? From your above description (and your earlier posts) it seems pretty clear that you are being taken advantage of by an advisor who is behaving unethically, but if you are only a short time away from graduating, perhaps you should cut your losses with a graduate degree in tow.

The questions now that you should ask yourself would be the following:

(a) What skills do you actually have, that you can demonstrate to a potential employer? What can you demonstrate that you can actually do? For example, with a quantitative degree one of the most important skills you should possesses should include programming. Can you program? If so, do you have any programs you've created that you can post (on places like GitHub)? Other skills you should possesses would be data analysis skills (from your experience in experiments). Can you spin that on your resume and/or cover letter?

(b) What type(s) of career do you wish to have? As I suggested above, will you be happy working as a software developer or data scientist (popular career choices for those with physics backgrounds)? Or do you want to do something else, say become an actuary (following @Locrian 's example)? Or do you want to do something different (e.g. patent agent, possible law school, the trades)?

Once you answered the questions posed in (a) and (b), then you need to think of ways to gain the skills that you actually need to get the kind of career you'd want. This may involve taking additional schooling (for example, a second degree in engineering or law school), an apprenticeship (say, if you go into the trades), or independent studies (for programming). And then you need to go out there and network your butt off. If you need to have a filler job in between, like a construction job or Walmart job (whatever jobs are most in demand where you are currently living) while you are gaining those skills, I think that is worth pursuing.

Again, just my 2 cents worth.[/USER]

 

[MarneMath]

People who cannot find value in their experiences, are definitely people not worth hiring. Therefore, yeah I agree your RA is useless for you, but not because it's useless. Maybe you're right, nothing you learn will directly apply to whatever job you think you want (doubtful), but maybe that's the case. However, a persons ability to talk positively, and meaningfully about their job says a lot about whether I want to work with that person or not. I don't want people who see problems and negativity but rather opportunities to succeed or change things. I can more or less ensure you that your attitude will preclude you from any success.

I lead a large data science team for a hedge fun. I interview hundred of candidates personally. Very few (if any) know anything about financial modeling, but I also believe that if you can get an advance degree in something technical, you can probably self-teach yourself what you need to know. I also happen to know that a myriad of data science teams feel the same as I do. You will be given opportunities simply because you have accomplished an advance degree. It'll be up to you to demonstrate that you are a self-learner and able to think through unfamiliar problems.

If you show that you're intelligent, capable, forward thinking, and have a base knowledge of simple statistics/ml algorithms, then you will probably do well. However, if you go into an interview demeaning your abilities then yeah I fully expect you to fail.

 

[symbolipoint]

Maybe this is a little to pessimistic:

People who cannot find value in their experiences, are definitely people not worth hiring. Therefore, yeah I agree your RA is useless for you, but not because it's useless. Maybe you're right, nothing you learn will directly apply to whatever job you think you want (doubtful), but maybe that's the case. However, a persons ability to talk positively, and meaningfully about their job says a lot about whether I want to work with that person or not. I don't want people who see problems and negativity but rather opportunities to succeed or change things. I can more or less ensure you that your attitude will preclude you from any success.

I lead a large data science team for a hedge fun. I interview hundred of candidates personally. Very few (if any) know anything about financial modeling, but I also believe that if you can get an advance degree in something technical, you can probably self-teach yourself what you need to know. I also happen to know that a myriad of data science teams feel the same as I do. You will be given opportunities simply because you have accomplished an advance degree. It'll be up to you to demonstrate that you are a self-learner and able to think through unfamiliar problems.

If you show that you're intelligent, capable, forward thinking, and have a base knowledge of simple statistics/ml algorithms, then you will probably do well. However, if you go into an interview demeaning your abilities then yeah I fully expect you to fail.

To be a bit more optimistic, Zap, you may actually have been getting or did have some beneficial experiences or outcomes. LOOK FOR THEM! You might not recognize them right away.