Physics/Math - Do you forget that which you don't practice?

[Femme_physics]

Physics/Math -- Do you forget that which you don't practice?

I want to ask people with experience of having studied something that they now don't use. Do you remember it? And, how long has it been since you studied it? This specifically referring to the field of physics/math/engineering.

Do you feel it's now useless that you studied it, and that you just had to study it because it was part of the degree?

 

[AlephZero]

In my experience just "studying" something isn't enough to get it into permanent memory. On the other hand, I often answer questions on PF about topics that I haven't actually used in my work for 20 years now, but I did use regularly for a several years before I moved on to other things. (What is taught in some physics and engineeriing degree courses hasn't been updated in the last 30 years, apparently, but that's a different topic!)

I have seen some academic research that claimed it takes about 10,000 hours "practice" (independent of the particular skill or knowledge involved) to get to the point where you "know something for life". That would take about 6 or 7 years to accumulate in a typical work environment. It sounds about right from my own experience.

 

[Kreizhn]

Personally, I find that it really depends on the subject. That is, did I like it? Did I truly understand it? Do I use it (even indirectly)?

For example, I can't remember algebraic stuff well at all. Firstly, I don't much like it, and secondly, I have a lot of trouble visualizing it. All this despite the fact that I work with groups and modules all the time.

On the other hand, I remember a great deal of real analysis despite almost never working with it directly. I mean, sure I spent a few years studying it, but the real reason I think I remember it is that 1) I love analysis (which is why it's sad I specialized in algebra), 2) I truly understand what's happening at even the most fundamental level, and 3) I can visualize it (even in cases when it shouldn't be possible to visualize).

Unfortunately, I do not seem to have nearly as much academic experience as our countable friend above and so cannot reflect on time-lengths nearly as well.

 

[micromass]

Yes, sadly I forget very fast. For example, I knew my course of Galois theory really inside out, and I made maximum grades on the subject. But right now, I remember nothing of it. Which is really sad since I really liked the subject.

However, if I choose to restudy things, then I see that the stuff comes back very quickly. So I haven't really forgotten it, it seems.

One reason I'm active on PF is to keep all those math subjects alive. By answering questions, I get to practice a lot with the concepts, so I don't forget them...

 

[jhae2.718]

I seem to be similar to Micromass; I find I forgot some things very fast. Other things I remember for some reason, especially if it's something I've missed on an exam or similar.

I usually find I can re-derive most of it or that I can pick it up again relatively quickly.

 

[Simfish]

Yeah, it's really sad. I can often learn things more quickly than I did before. But it really depends on how I learned the material. If I *forced* myself to learn the material, then I forget more quickly, and I don't even absorb the material more quickly once I encounter it again.

On the other hand, though, there are many physics/math formulas that I may forget the definition of, but which I can come back and instantly explain to anyone once I see it again. A simple example of this is the Drake equation (it's a very simple equation, but it's hard to remember each and every one of the terms). Nonetheless, any decent student can go back to it and explain the significance of each of the individual terms.

 

[Femme_physics]

So I gather by the replies it's about what you love and additionally what you think is important, that you tend to hardcode into memory. So naturally, the lesser that degree of importance, and the lesser the degree of love for understanding it, the less you remember of it. Hmmm... yes, I remember that's how the memory functions-- categorizing things based on importance (with emotions definitely play a huge role as well).I think then that you can practice something for years, but if you don't love it or don't think about it, or even think it's important, that'll be forgotten as well... but I also think it's actually important to be able to forget and clear room for more important stuff that comes along.

On the other hand, though, there are many physics/math formulas that I may forget the definition of, but which I can come back and instantly explain to anyone once I see it again. A simple example of this is the Drake equation (it's a very simple equation, but it's hard to remember each and every one of the terms). Nonetheless, any decent student can go back to it and explain the significance of each of the individual terms.

I usually find I can re-derive most of it or that I can pick it up again relatively quickly.

That's actually important quality of memory. If that knowledge you forgot became vital again, you can pick it up again relatively quickly!

 

[mal4mac]

It's a few decades since I took my physics degree, and I remember very little of the technical detail of what I learned. I've used less than 90% of what I learned in any job I have subsequently pursued.

So 90% of my physics degree was (literally!) useless.

But it wasn't a waste of time.

I was, at that time, more interested in physics than anything else. By the end of the course I was more interested in other things (philosophy, psychology, music, literature...) but it still wasn't a waste of time! At least I learned that it wasn't what I was most interested in, and I was still interested in it (a bit...) It also made it easy to find well paying jobs that weren't *too* demanding...

You cannot be disappointed if you do what you really want to do... even if your feelings change... as you can then do something else... And I'm not unhappy about forgetting 90% of my physics, that would be on a par with regretting having to sleep, i.e., just too silly...

By the way, if you take "you remember what you love" as your final conclusion, from these off-the-cuff replies, you are not thinking like a scientist. Search the research literature on the subject! Do some experiments!

I vaguely remember reading some psychological research on this topic, which (if my memory serves me right!) said that 'loving' a subject had *nothing* to do with the actual remembering of the material - you remember material if you *use* it...

There's a good book on "Human Memory" by Baddeley that would make a good starting point for your researches. He quotes William James, who suggested that 'elaborating the associates' was the most important thing, not 'love'...

'Thinking like a proper scientist' is something I gained, and still retain, from my years in physics,... it's enough...

 

[MathematicalPhysicist]

Good question Femme, I myself am pondering what's the point in my learning, and I got to the cocnlusion that George Jones' quote is right on the money.

What I learn for a course or a grade I find that some of it will be forgotten, but when I open a book for myself and start to read it with no external reward (for degree or work) it will stick with me.

And usually I prefer a book, only on rare occasions when the lecturer has a nice sense of humour which I can relate to, only then the course is worthwhile.

 

[Femme_physics]

It's a few decades since I took my physics degree, and I remember very little of the technical detail of what I learned. I've used less than 90% of what I learned in any job I have subsequently pursued.

So 90% of my physics degree was (literally!) useless.

But it wasn't a waste of time.

I was, at that time, more interested in physics than anything else. By the end of the course I was more interested in other things (philosophy, psychology, music, literature...) but it still wasn't a waste of time! At least I learned that it wasn't what I was most interested in, and I was still interested in it (a bit...) It also made it easy to find well paying jobs that weren't *too* demanding...

You cannot be disappointed if you do what you really want to do... even if your feelings change... as you can then do something else... And I'm not unhappy about forgetting 90% of my physics, that would be on a par with regretting having to sleep, i.e., just too silly...

By the way, if you take "you remember what you love" as your final conclusion, from these off-the-cuff replies, you are not thinking like a scientist. Search the research literature on the subject! Do some experiments!

I vaguely remember reading some psychological research on this topic, which (if my memory serves me right!) said that 'loving' a subject had *nothing* to do with the actual remembering of the material - you remember material if you *use* it...

There's a good book on "Human Memory" by Baddeley that would make a good starting point for your researches. He quotes William James, who suggested that 'elaborating the associates' was the most important thing, not 'love'...

'Thinking like a proper scientist' is something I gained, and still retain, from my years in physics,... it's enough...

No, I definitely agree that "love" isn't what it's so much about, IMO it's what you think it's important, which in turns lead to you loving the subject. As far as doing more research and being a true scientist...yes, well, these replies are good enough even if we didn't fathom the issue here. I mean, I got homework and other s*** to do ;)

 

[Jake4]

well, I suppose the correlation between "loving" a topic, and therefore "using" it should be addressed. That is, if you love a topic, you're thinking about it a lot and having a curiosity and interest in it.

I'm very interested in physics. Now, mind you, I'm in calc based physics ONE... yet I have a very deep seated interest in it, and because of that.. I find myself applying it everywhere... even as ROUGH estimates. If it was just another class, I'd do the homework, pass.. and move on. However because I "love" the subject, and the topics, my mind is much more active about those topics.

It's like weightloss, you can't lose weight if you don't enjoy the diet you're on. As far as science goes (personal philosophy), if you don't enjoy what you do, you probably won't do it well... or at least to the full potential possible.

 

[mal4mac]

I'm very interested in physics. Now, mind you, I'm in calc based physics ONE... yet I have a very deep seated interest in it, and because of that.. I find myself applying it everywhere... even as ROUGH estimates. If it was just another class, I'd do the homework, pass.. and move on. However because I "love" the subject, and the topics, my mind is much more active about those topics.

I was there a few decades ago, but I've probably forgotten about 80% of that stuff because my work ended up hardly ever using calculus, and I quickly lost interest in 'applying it just for fun'.

It's like weightloss, you can't lose weight if you don't enjoy the diet you're on. As far as science goes (personal philosophy), if you don't enjoy what you do, you probably won't do it well... or at least to the full potential possible.

I've found I can lose weight better if I don't enjoy the diet I'm on! For instance i can't resist eating several slices at once of my favourite freshly baked organic bread, but I can easily resist eating more than one slice of standard shop bought stuff. So if I want to lose a few pounds I buy standard shop bought or nothing - definitely not my preferred diet.

 

[Jake4]

Well, you're essentially affirming my point haha. Just because you love a topic at one point doesn't mean it will be forever.. I simply was saying if you actively enjoy the topic, you'll be more likely to use it more often, and thus will remember it better...

And weight loss wise, the point is that you need to make it easier... not liking the diet you're on would be the equivalent to saying, you can get the nice bread, but can only eat one slice. If every day is painfull, people won't stick to it...

But that was a simple metaphor.. I don't want to discuss diets :P