Physics PhD 5 years after ME undergrad

[Myers3x]

Hi everyone,

Here is a little about my situation (from the United States). I want to apply to a physics PhD program in the future. I am currently serving in the military as an engineer with little over 2.5 years left before I plan to get out.

I have a mechanical engineering degree with a 3.5 GPA. Although I did do some projects and joined some clubs during my time at school, I have NO research experience. Being removed from college for so long, recommendation letters from academics is not a possibility. They will likely all be professional from people I have worked with. If needed, I will take the GRE to strengthen my application. From admissions websites it seems the GRE is not weighted as much as it used to be, if at all in some cases.

Is getting accepted into any decent program realistic to think about? I know my chances of getting into a top 20 university are slim to none, but I would like to get into a good school. Any advice on what I can do these next two and a half years to strengthen my application would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

 

[gmax137]

There are practice physics GRE exams online. Try one, see how you do.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Which branch? What's your designator?

 

[CrysPhys]

How much math and physics did you take as an undergrad?

Which field of physics do you want to do your PhD thesis in?

 

[Myers3x]

Which branch? What's your designator?

I’m in the Civil Engineer Corps.

 

[Myers3x]

How much math and physics did you take as an undergrad?

Which field of physics do you want to do your PhD thesis in?

General classes required for Eng. Calc 1-3, diff eq, then a couple general physics classes. Nothing above and beyond what was required for my degree. I understand I will have to take some “catch up” classes. I have a few fields I really enjoy, but I still have to do my research these next couple years to see what I really like the most.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Let's start with the bad news.

You are not qualified, and unless you are a URM, the chances are excellent that you will need to pay yourself to, to use your words, "catch up". You're something like 6-9 classes behind where you need to be. In principle this can be done in a year, but it will be a tough year.

The GRE will not be optional for you. You need some piece of evidence that you are ready - and thus far, the evidence is that you are not - and can outcompete those with a traditional background.

Half of all PhDs come from ~15 schools (with some variation). "Not Top 20" closes maybe 60% of the doors, npy 6%.

Your letters are not FIREPs. They are supposed to be from people who can assess whether you will succeed in physics grad school, which means they should have gone their themselves. While physics research is not required for grad admissions, if your only letters in this category say "He did OK in my class" this is not helpful. So while research is not a requirement, it probably is for you.

This is probably not good news. You are likely in Guam or Gulfport if you aren't in some place ending in -stan. Research at a local college is unlikely (fun fact - Guam gets the fewest federal research dollars of any state or territory).

Now the good news. Ever wonder what happens to the CEC Flags when they retire? Some go to direct large research construction projects. A short, well-written letter to one, outlining your desire to get involved and what your constraints are might get some traction. The admiral won't be able to help you, of course, but he can drop a copy on a colleague's desk with a post-it note attached asking "can you help this person?"

 

[Frabjous]

Why a PhD in Physics and not Engineering?
Have you looked at getting a position in one of the military labs? They frequently pay for people to get advanced degrees.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Have you looked at getting a position in one of the military labs?

1, He has 2-1/2 years on his contract, He tries to pick his next assignment, they are going to ask him to extend. They are not stupid.
2, Not all of these positions are even open to CEC officers.
3. He's not ready to be a scientist and too senior to be a hunchback.

 

[Choppy]

There's something else to consider as well. If you didn't take senior physics courses as an undergrad and have no research experience, how do you know that a PhD in physics is the right path for you? That's not a question you have to answer here, but bear in mind there are a lot of physics undergrads who figure out that graduate school is not the path for them. And there are students who get into graduate school, but then as soon as the courses are over they dive deeply into research and find out that's not their passion. Hopefully that's not the case for you, but just be aware that the path you're considering may not be what you believe it is.

 

[Myers3x]

Hopefully that's not the case for you, but just be aware that the path you're considering may not be what you believe it is.

Let's start with the bad news.

You are not qualified, and unless you are a URM, the chances are excellent that you will need to pay yourself to, to use your words, "catch up". You're something like 6-9 classes behind where you need to be. In principle this can be done in a year, but it will be a tough year.

Thank you for these insights, I appreciate the straight answers. @Vanadium 50 , Kind of scary how accurately you were able to narrow down those locations, not giving any more information than that haha.

@Choppy is correct, I have no way of knowing this is what I actually want with no experience. Which leads me to this idea, if at all even possible. I use my GI bill to complete a physics undergrad without having to pay myself. With my eng classes it should not take more than 2-3 years. I can do research, strengthen my application, and really decide if this is what I want. Worst case, it's not, and I move on. Best case, what's an extra 2 years to do the career you want.

 

[Vanadium 50]

I use my GI bill to complete a physics undergrad without having to pay myself.

This may or may not work.

• A lot of places do not accept students for second BS degrees. The usual way around this is to pick up the classes as a non-degree seeking student.
• Does the GI Bill cover work as a non-degree seeking student at a degree granting institution? This isn't barber school. I'd look very carefully at this before assuming it will work.

Your original undergraduate institution might prove more flexible.

 

[CrysPhys]

@Choppy is correct, I have no way of knowing this is what I actually want with no experience. Which leads me to this idea, if at all even possible. I use my GI bill to complete a physics undergrad without having to pay myself. With my eng classes it should not take more than 2-3 years. I can do research, strengthen my application, and really decide if this is what I want. Worst case, it's not, and I move on. Best case, what's an extra 2 years to do the career you want.

General classes required for Eng. Calc 1-3, diff eq, then a couple general physics classes. Nothing above and beyond what was required for my degree. I understand I will have to take some “catch up” classes. I have a few fields I really enjoy, but I still have to do my research these next couple years to see what I really like the most.

Let's set aside the issue of finances and GI bill coverage for now. The more fundamental question is, "What triggered your ambition to pursue a PhD in physics?" As an undergrad, you were not sitting on the fence, trying to decide between a major in physics and a major in ME. You took only the physics courses that were required for an ME major; nothing sparked your interest to take further physics electives.

So what in the interim has ignited your passion to pursue a PhD in physics? I can see if you were working as an ME and collaborating with physicists on a project, and you got interested in the physics side of the project. Then you would know what field of research you wish to pursue. But you don't.

And if you do decide to pursue a PhD in physics, your chances of success will depend on whether you pick a field in which you can leverage your ME background or whether you pick a field far, far astray from ME.

 

[diracs_stache]

@ V50 , kinda scared to respond and have you tell me my home address

@OP :
Certainly not an expert on this issue but I am a recently separated Naval Officer pursuing a MS in Applied Physics at night as I work as an engineer in NOVA by day. I was an EE undergrad and while on AD was an 1820, did some time afloat and had an assignment in NOVA that ignited my interest in Optics. Long term I want to pursue a PhD but this will probably be a slow burn for me (if it happens). I separated just short of 7 yrs and my academic muscles were weak, I've taken Math Methods (Riley, Hobson, Bence) , E&M (Jin, Jackson), and Optics (Hecht, Dereniak) thus far and it's been a fight. More to follow w/ Modern Physics and QM still to go (which my BS lacked). My firm "supports" my academic goals but I think trying to move to a Government Lab may be a better move for my goals. I hope to research optical frequency combs for spectrographs

 

[berkeman]

@diracs_stache -- Welcome to PF, and thank you for your service.

and had an assignment in NOVA that ignited my interest in Optics.

I see what you did there...

 

[Vanadium 50]

kinda scared to respond and have you tell me my home address

Naw...don't worry about that. But your lawn is getting a little...oh, nevermind.

How fast do you think you are going relative to a full-time student? Half? One-third? Something else? That would help calibrate people's expectations.

 

[diracs_stache]

Naw...don't worry about that. But your lawn is getting a little...oh, nevermind.

How fast do you think you are going relative to a full-time student? Half? One-third? Something else? That would help calibrate people's expectations.

Okay thats scary lol

I'd say at a glacial pace, but quantitatively probably 35-40%. Most instances of full time MS students I can reference were 15-21 mos and 39-45 mos is what is my aim for coursework + thesis.

 

[Vanadium 50]

It's really not anything special. Finding Seabees in Gulfport or Guam is like finding SWOs in Norfolk. Or an LCS driver in the unemployment line (sorry...that was just plain mean),

I know a few 1810s, but no 1820's. I presume that your community has the same problem most RL communities do: they have a huge need for junior officers, but not many billets for O-4s and up. Junior officers see the writing on the wall, and decide to serve elsewhere. This is why I cringe when I read the advice "the service will pay for you to get a PhD!", because usually the services aren't so interested in this.

Your 35-40% matches my factor of 2-3. Given that the average physics PhD takes 7 years, that means a reasonable expectation is 15-20 years, and for most people, most professors, and most universities, this is just not realistic.

Unfortunately, lack of realism is a problem. Many people think they can, even part-time, move substantially faster than people can.