Picturing wave/particle duality

[SimonA]

Hi NewLocality

I must admit when I first read your original post I was perplexed to say the least :)

Now I feel I kind of understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure why you consider it different from the general application of the non localism of QM to relativity ?

I say that because i find that it sometimes seems like everyones trying too hard to make new theories, and not hard enough to make sense of the reality all the theories and evidence describe. The most obvious answer to the question you were asked there, is that photons do not experience time! It almost seems like a trick question...

What you really need is a way to describe this apparent "superposition" that actually makes sense. And that is easily done considering the universe as multi dimensional, with a firmament in the "centre" that is EM and all that travels at c in a vacuum, for which there is no time or place according to relativity. And below that you have matter, and above that you have "high energy" dimensions. We exist either side of this "firmament", in personal terms the waters below consisting of the body and the brain, the waters above consisting of the mind. The self crosses the boundaries and appears to be different on either side, but that's an illusion. Its the same thing.

Until people can get their heads around a more accurate visualisation of nature, all theories on it are meaningless. Youngs theory of light as waves seemed crazy to people when they had become used to thinking of it as particles since Newton. Now that we have mathematical evidence for "extra" dimensions, and yet people still pondering that seperately in corners of cosmology where point based dimesnional geomtry becomes their crazy obsession, whilst QM still grapples with what should by now be primitive ideas of non-locaility in terms of "super positions" and the like.

Why does everyone seem to cherish the rediculous notion of a TOE, when einstein already explained that it would by like understanding a great symphony in terms of a series of wave pressure values, and then spend so much time splintering what we do know so much it becomes plain nonsense ?

I'd better stop moaning there :)

Simon

 

[NewLocality]

Hi Simon.

You say "What you really need is a way to describe this apparent "superposition" that actually makes sense."

That is exactly what proper interval locality is about.

This a note I sent to David Deutsch regarding superposition and the development of interference.

Proper Interval Locality

Single Universe Interference

The interference patterns we observe in say multiple slit experiments
were thought to be created by photons interfering with each other as
they pass through the experimental set up. However, when the intensity
of the light beam is reduced to the extent that only one photon passes
through the apparatus at one time the individual detections build up
the same interference pattern. One explanation for this behaviour is
that our photon, the one we detect, is accompanied through the
apparatus by countless shadow photons that interfere with it. The
number of shadow photons required to perform this task is immense;
trillions? One explanation for the shadow photons is that they come
from universes that exist in parallel with our own and at quantum
level they interfere with each other to generate the patterns seen in
our apparatus.

Proper interval locality, an extended theory of special relativity,
says that this level of complex interference can be created by a
single universe.

The theory says the photon is never in flight, the energy being
exchanged directly between quantum systems via zero interval paths.
The flight of photons therefore does not create interference, this
comes from elsewhere.

A donor quantum system has associated with it a certain wave frequency
that determines how it may interact with other quantum systems. This
frequency is proportional to the difference in total energy contained
by the quantum system before and after interaction (relative to any
given inertial frame of reference). The phase of the wave will be
determined by the internal state of the quantum system.

From any event on a quantum system 's worldline there are an infinite
number of zero interval paths leading to any other position in the
universe. All zero interval paths linking two quantum system causes
them to be contiguous. The total distance taken by each path,
relative to a given inertial frame of reference will be different
therefore the time will also be different. An event on a quantum
system A (let this be an absorber) will therefore be contiguous not to
one event on a second system B (donor) but to a history of events. The
associated "wave-function" of quantum system B contiguous with System
A will have many super-positioned phases . These will interfere with
each other to give the final intensity of the wave-function. If the
intensity is high enough and system A's wave-function is compatible
with B's then an interaction is likely (hints of Cramer here). The
energy will simple pass between contiguous systems (Super-positioned).
There is no limit to the number of zero paths between source and
detector an apparatus may have, a thousand, a million, a trillion?
Proper interval locality explains interference as effectively as the
many worlds theory.

It seems that the shadow photons are not coming from parallel
universes but from different times and places in our own."

Proper interval locality is a model which may or may not be an accurate visualisation of nature. It does not claim to be a toe, it is limited in its application. What it does do is explain how superposition occurs, in the simplest possible way, for four dimensional space-time in which the speed of light is constant in all inertial reference frames.

It differs from other theories in there is no requirement to superposition photons. It is the interacting quantum systems that are superpositioned.

The model works to the extent that for every experimental situation so far examined it generates an explanation that is consistent with observation and there is no inconsistency developing between special relativity and quantum mechanics.

 

[NewLocality]

Hi Simon

You asked "Now I feel I kind of understand what you're saying, but I'm not sure why you consider it different from the general application of the non localism of QM to relativity ?"

I hope this helps

The proper interval locality shows that quantum behaviour is consistent with special relativity.

The proposition is quantum events are not non-local but governed by interval locality.
Conventionally events are contiguous (touching and capable of influencing each other) only if their spatial and temporal separations have zero magnitude. In space-time events can have another form of locality, interval locality where the magnitude of the interval separating them has zero magnitude. Events can have interval contiguity regardless of their remoteness in space and time. Events that are interval contiguous have proper interval locality. The proper interval locality model says quantum systems are sensitive to interval contiguity and it is the underlying causal mechanism governing their interactions.

The model provides the mechanism for the state of the world at one event to be super-positioned onto the states of world at events elsewhere in the world enabling the probability of interaction between spatial positions to be calculated. This is the mechanism that leads to the development of the wave-function in a way purely consistent with special relativity.

The classic experiment that demonstrates the world to be non-local in the conventional sense is Aspect’s Experiment. This experiment is supposed to demonstrate super-luminal connectivity between spatially remote photons. This connectivity is some how created without any known causal link. Einstein Spooky force?

Proper interval locality does not require the flight of photons; instead the source and the detectors become “relativistically” super-positioned. In space-time the event when the calcium atom cascades and the two events where the photo multipliers detect absorptions are super-positioned. The two detectors are experiencing a single incident both instantaneously absorbing energy from the cascading donor. It is therefore inevitable that results from the detectors will be statistically consistent with the strict correspondence of polarity between both sides of the apparatus. There is no requirement for super-luminal signals between the detectors or phantom carrier particles. I believe the evidence for proper interval locality is overwhelming.

However, proper interval locality is not a matter of speculation; it is something you do.

You look at any experimental arrangement and determine the zero interval paths between source and detectors (between donors and absorbers) and determine the pattern of super-positioning and corresponding wave-functions and hence the probability distribution of interaction. Transactional scenarios are possible where the wave-functions of donors and absorbers can be matched to predict interaction between specific quantum systems although it is difficult to conceive of a situation where this may have practical value

The proper interval locality is ideally suited for computer modelling, any volunteers?

For more visit: - www.electrodynamics-of-special-relativity.com[/URL]

 

[SimonA]

Hi NewLocality

What do you mean by "countless shadow photons" ?

Is not all this yet another new theory that provides no new explanatory power and just invents new terms that provide neither explanation nor description ?

Of course to anything that travels at c in a vacuum there are "zero path intervals". Thats kind of obvious. But take that back to what happening both from our perspective where these paths are not zero, and then to the reality of EM where they are zero, and then see why they match easily if you consider extra dimensions that are beyond dispute in other areas of maths and physics.

Simon

Simon

 

[NewLocality]

Hi Simon

You asked; “What do you mean by "countless shadow photons?”

I was referring to the many universes interpretation of quantum mechanics.(Everett)

I quote David Deutsch when describing the four-slit experiment in his book The Fabric of Reality.

“What we have inferred so far is only that each tangible photon has an accompanying retinue of shadow photons, and that when a photon passes through one of our four slits shadow photons pass through the other three slits”

These shadow photons are each tangible in other universes lying parallel to our own.

My point was that proper interval locality renders all these parallel universes redundant, as relativistic super-positioning (proper interval locality) of quantum system explains interference. The proof of this mathematically is relatively easy and is contained in the website.

You next asked; “Is not all this yet another new theory that provides no new explanatory power and just invents new terms that provide neither explanation nor description ?”

I think you addressed this question primarily regarding the statement about the many universes interpretation perhaps you would like to address the question to professor Deutsch.

With regard to proper interval locality I don’t regard it as a new theory but rather the natural marriage of the fundamentals of quantum mechanics and relativity.

Proper interval locality is primarily based on three propositions:

1. To fix an event in the world we need for any inertial reference frame four coordinates, three of space and one of time.
2. The speed of light is constant in all reference frames. This fixes the interval metric
3. The world contains quantum systems that hold energy that can be exchanged between systems. When a quantum system exchanges energy there is an associated frequency that is proportional to the difference in the total energy of the system before and after exchange.

From there on all I’ve done is remove of the redundancy that has crept in through historic accident. For instance the explanation for the photo-electric effect predates Minkowski space-time by three years. If this had been reversed then twentieth century physics may have taken a very different course.

You then say

“Of course to anything that travels at c in a vacuum there are "zero path intervals". Thats kind of obvious. But take that back to what happening both from our perspective where these paths are not zero, and then to the reality of EM where they are zero, and then see why they match easily if you consider extra dimensions that are beyond dispute in other areas of maths and physics.”

Have you ever heard of Occam’s Razor

This is the principle that entities are not to be multiplied beyond necessity.

With respect to the interference, diffraction, entanglement decoherence these effects can be explained simple and elegantly without the need to invoke higher dimensions.

I think we must get the basics correct Particularly the meaning of zero interval paths (Which I don't regard as being kind of obvious) before we go chasing off into higher dimensions we must fully explore the four we can measure.


NL

 

[NewLocality]

Sorry Simon I forgot to ask

What are these things that travel at c and experience zero interval paths?

NL

 

[SimonA]

Hi NewLocality

Thanks for the further explanations. I've come to the conclusion that it is indeed the "meaning of zero interval paths" (especially in terms of "the minus sign in the metric ") that I'm finding challenging to accept in four dimensional space. This is the very reason I find extra dimensions so compelling. You mention occams razor, but surely occams razor follows Einsteins statement that things should be as simple as possible - but no simpler. After all if energy can be transferred through this extra dimension(s) in some way (which could be called "emission" + whatever the opposite of emission is :) ), then bells theorem can be accepted without redefining locality in terms of what it is actually referring to - the relativistic nature of all non quantum things. And what's more, though I don't agree with much of what M Theory has become, the maths of the five versions of string theory did (apparently) fit together so well into the 11 dimensions of M that it kind of makes sense to me that occams razor could be said to be itself violated by considering a purely four dimensional reality. And please note I'm in no ways talking about many "worlds" or universe interpretations as I think they are just so against occams razor (let alone common sense) its rediculous.

What are these things that travel at c and experience zero interval paths?

Waves of energy moving between quantised energy structures ?

But more seriously, there are a whole load of problems I have with you relying on space time as being 'leaped across'. You say

The electromagnetic energy exists either in the emitting system or the absorber system but has no independent existence in space-time between the two.

What about the mass of planets bending the path of light between 'emitter' and 'detector' ? In my thoughts on extra dimensions space and time themselves are like the outer edge of the of a multi-dimensional reality (hinted at in things like the casimir effect). It could be thought of that matter kind of protrudes into spacetime and we see the tip of the iceberg if you like. In that way all the observable changes that occur to the light (such as bending or red shift) that we only notice over huge distances (in nature) become explainable even though the energy is not actually moving in timespace. After all we have good reason to believe gravity "leaks", although to me it would be best to say that the nature of gravity is not confined to spacetime, but due to the nature of the non local dimension(s), it naturally has less influence on that which skirts the boundary between space-time and the non local dimensions - i.e. that which relatavistically does not experience spacetime as anything other than a single point.

Maybe I need to think more about your "zero interval paths", but to me you seem to be describing something quite similar to what I am, less some explanatory power.

I would also be curious what you opinion is on the "bending of light" before I suggest the next issue I have with it :)

Interesting thinking about it though.

Thanks

Simon

 

[NewLocality]

Firstly, I’d like to say that space-time is full of zero interval paths connecting remote pairs of events; there is no escaping from this.

The question is; do these have causal significance or are they just an oddity and of no particular value to nature, as she seems to ignore their potential benefit and use third party carriers to mediate force between remote systems?

I think not; the minus sign in the metric is the jewel in the crown, which allows nature to orchestrate what goes on across the universe.

It allows Bell’s inequality to be violated whist maintaining the integrity of special relativity.

It is simple, elegant, and beautiful and what’s more it is achieved in four-dimensional space-time.

With on stroke interval locality explains.

1. Why the carrier of light has no mass.
2. What the roles of waves and quantization of energy are. (Wave-particle duality)
3. How interference works (Multiple slit experiments)
4. How observations of remote measurements become correlated (Particle entanglement)
5. How information gets about so quickly

And it introduces new notions such as relativistic super-positioning of states and relativistically induced uncertainty. The minus sign in the metric transforms a classical theory into the foundation of quantum mechanics.

“It may be challenging to accept the meaning of zero interval paths” but the rewards for doing so are legion.

Moving on you say

“There are a whole load of problems I with you relying on space-time as being leaped across”

Firstly; a point of definition I will sometimes refer to space and time. These are what can be measured with rules and clocks and be represented on a space time diagram.

When I refer to space-time I am thinking of the continuum characterised by Minkowski’s metric or perhaps Schwarzschild’s metric where the world is influenced by gravity.

The energy you refer to that leaps across space and time does so only because of the way the parameters are measured and represented. In space-time events become super-positioned and the corresponding quantum systems will also be become super-positioned allowing energy to pass “instantaneously” from one system to another. But our measurements with respect to these events will reveal the energy to jump from one time and place to another.

“What about the mass of planets bending the path of light between the emitter and detector”

Have a look at Schwarzschild’s metric. You will see that it to is also characterised by the minus sign. In other words proper interval locality is equally valid in the equations of both special and general relativity.

I have not investigated the Casimir effect with respect to proper interval locality, it has to be one step at a time at the moment, however it is the nature of interval locality theory that there is a lot going on at every location in the world since super-positioning is universal, I think I would be looking for answers from the four dimensions with which we are reasonably familiar with before losing oneself beyond the “edge of the multi-dimensional reality”.

Bending of light.

Between a donor system and an absorber there are an infinite number of paths where by the systems become super-positioned but most of the super-positioning results in annihilation of the wave-function intensity only the limited number of paths where the donor phases reinforce each other will there be any probability of interaction. The paths that produce reinforcement of the wave function will depend on the distribution of matter between donor and detector. This can result in light bending or the direction of polarisation being changed it all depends on the available paths between donor and detector.

 

[Doc Al]

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