Planet formation vs Sun collapse

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mechanisms of planet formation and the stability of planetary orbits in relation to the collapse of material into a protostar. Participants explore why planets do not collapse into the sun despite the initial conditions that led to their formation, considering various theories and models related to gravitational forces, kinetic energy, and equilibrium states.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests that the planets remain in equilibrium due to their velocity, size, and distance from the sun.
  • Another participant agrees that the collapse in the radial direction stops when the velocity is sufficient for stable orbits around the central mass.
  • A different viewpoint describes the accretion process of a protostar reaching equilibrium when gas pressure equals gravitational pull, but notes this applies to the star, not the planets.
  • One participant outlines a kinetic energy framework, proposing that planets can either fall into the sun, achieve elliptical orbits, or be flung out of the star system based on their energy levels.
  • Another participant emphasizes that while planets may lose energy over time and potentially crash into the sun, this process takes an extremely long time, suggesting stability in the current solar system.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms of stability for planetary orbits and the processes involved in the accretion of material into stars versus planets. No consensus is reached on the primary reasons why planets do not collapse into the sun.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various models and theories without resolving the complexities of gravitational interactions, energy dynamics, and the timescales involved in planetary stability and energy loss.

vikasagartha
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I understand how conservation of momentum leads to planet formation and planet rotation. However, after studying this model, I have ran into a point of confusion that I cannot find the answer to:

Why don't the planets collapse into the sun just as dust particles collapsed inward via conservation of angular momentum to form the planets in the first place? What distinguishes the two situations?

My two potential theories (pardon any silly answers, I am an amateur):

* The velocity, size, distance, etc of the planets are just right that they stay in that equilibrium.
* The accretion process stopped after the sun reached some set stage. Perhaps study the stages of the sun?

Thanks in advance!
 
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The collapse in radial direction (along the disk radius) stops as soon as the velocity is sufficient to give orbits around the central mass.
The accretion process stopped after the sun reached some set stage.
Right.
The velocity, size, distance, etc of the planets are just right that they stay in that equilibrium.
"Every" orbit around a star is stable, if the planet does not hit anything (significant) on its path.
 
Hmm. I am a little confused. Some of the reading that I am doing online is showing me something more like this:

A protostar accretes mass until it reaches an equilibrium. Equilibrium can be explained in the following manner:

1. Gravity pulls gas and dust into the core.
2. The core gets hotter as gas density increases and thereby the rate of gas atom collisions increases.
3. When the gas pressure = gravity, the accretion process stops.
 
vikasagartha said:
Hmm. I am a little confused. Some of the reading that I am doing online is showing me something more like this:

A protostar accretes mass until it reaches an equilibrium. Equilibrium can be explained in the following manner:

1. Gravity pulls gas and dust into the core.
2. The core gets hotter as gas density increases and thereby the rate of gas atom collisions increases.
3. When the gas pressure = gravity, the accretion process stops.

True, but you're talking about the gas that is collapsing to form the star itself. The gas and dust that forms the planets doesn't collapse into the star.
 
vikasagartha said:
Why don't the planets collapse into the sun just as dust particles collapsed inward via conservation of angular momentum to form the planets in the first place? What distinguishes the two situations?

I forget the exact equation, but it basically depends on the kinetic energy of the planet, for which a few scenarios arive:

1) if it has too little energy it goes into the sun
2) if it's within a certain range it gains an elliptical orbit (like our planets have)
3) if it has too much energy it has a hyperbolic orbit and is flung out of the star system

and our planets have enough kinetic energy to be in the 2nd category, as planets lose energy naturally over time they move into the 1st category from the 2nd and crash into their sun. We just don't see planets like that because they would crash into the sun over the course of millions of years, although there are some examples that you'll occasionally see in the news
 
Viracocha said:
and our planets have enough kinetic energy to be in the 2nd category, as planets lose energy naturally over time they move into the 1st category from the 2nd and crash into their sun. We just don't see planets like that because they would crash into the sun over the course of millions of years, although there are some examples that you'll occasionally see in the news

Such processes take orders of magnitude longer. Our solar system has been around for over 4 billion years and we're just fine.
 

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