Pointer Momentum of a Measuring Apparatus

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter SheikYerbouti
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Measuring Momentum
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of pointer momentum in the context of measurement theory, particularly how it relates to the interaction Hamiltonian between a measuring apparatus and the system being measured. Participants explore the physical interpretation of pointer momentum, its role as a generator of translations, and its relationship to other observables in quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the physical correspondence of pointer momentum, suggesting it may have a deeper interpretation beyond being a generator of translations.
  • Another participant agrees that the observable conjugate to pointer momentum is the pointer coordinate/read-out, but expresses uncertainty about the broader implications of pointer momentum.
  • Some participants assert that the momentum of a particle involves more than just generating translations, implying a potential parallel to pointer momentum.
  • One participant argues that the fundamental basis of momentum is rooted in symmetry, suggesting that there may not be a deeper significance to pointer momentum beyond this symmetry.
  • References to various academic papers and books are provided to support different viewpoints on the measurement problem and the role of pointer momentum.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on whether pointer momentum has a deeper physical interpretation or if it is solely a generator of translations. There is no consensus on the implications of pointer momentum in the context of the measurement problem.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various sources that discuss the measurement problem, decoherence, and the relationship between observables in quantum mechanics, indicating a complex interplay of ideas that remains unresolved.

SheikYerbouti
Messages
18
Reaction score
0
I am writing a paper on the problem of measurement and I am stuck on what the pointer momentum corresponds to physically. The coupling of the pointer momentum with the observable being measured is used to define the interaction Hamiltonian between the measuring apparatus and the system being measured. I understand that the observable conjugate to the pointer momentum is the pointer coordinate/read-out and that the pointer momentum generates the translations in for this coordinate. Is this all that there is to the pointer momentum, or does it correspond to something else as well?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
SheikYerbouti said:
I am writing a paper on the problem of measurement and I am stuck on what the pointer momentum corresponds to physically. The coupling of the pointer momentum with the observable being measured is used to define the interaction Hamiltonian between the measuring apparatus and the system being measured.

Yes - that's how generalised measurements are arrived at:
http://www.quantum.umb.edu/Jacobs/QMT/QMT_Chapter1.pdf

SheikYerbouti said:
I understand that the observable conjugate to the pointer momentum is the pointer coordinate/read-out and that the pointer momentum generates the translations in for this coordinate. Is this all that there is to the pointer momentum, or does it correspond to something else as well?

Well that's all there really is to the momentum operator - but what exactly you mean by 'pointer momentum' in this context I am not sure.

Thanks
Bill
 
By the pointer momentum, I am referring to the observable of the measuring apparatus that is coupled to the observable that is being measured in the system. I don't know if that helped at all, so here is a link that explains the setup: http://www.theory.caltech.edu/people/preskill/ph229/notes/chap3.pdf. It goes into the model on the second page and I am referring to the P operator. When we discuss the momentum of a particle, there is more to it than simply being the generator of coordinate translations. I was just wondering if there was something similar going on for the pointer momentum in that there was a deeper, manifestly physical interpretation or if it simply is a generator of translation.
 
SheikYerbouti said:
When we discuss the momentum of a particle, there is more to it than simply being the generator of coordinate translations.

Not so sure about that.

See chapter 3 - Ballentine - Quantum Mechanics - A Modern Development.

It's constrained by the fact probabilities are frame invariant.

Symmetry is its fundamental basis - symmetries implied by probability invariance in QM - symmetries implied by Lagrangian invariance in classical mechanics.

IMHO there is nothing deeper going on - its the magic and mystery of symmetry in physics.

Symmetry tells us what the momentum operator is. But its relation to the measurent problem is another matter - as it is for any observable in QM.

I know that paper you linked to and it is good.

However for understanding the measurement problem in light of modern developments in decoherence I think the following is better:
http://philsci-archive.pitt.edu/5439/1/Decoherence_Essay_arXiv_version.pdf

It emphasises the crucial difference between improper and proper mixed states.

An even better reference is Decoherence and the Quantum to Classical Transition by Schlosshauer
https://www.amazon.com/dp/3540357734/?tag=pfamazon01-20

Its my go-to book on such things.

Thanks
Bill
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 61 ·
3
Replies
61
Views
5K
  • · Replies 10 ·
Replies
10
Views
8K