Poisoned Trees: What One Fool Can Do

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the act of poisoning landmark live oak trees at Auburn University, exploring the motivations behind the act, its implications for the community, and the emotional responses it evokes. Participants reflect on the broader themes of environmental destruction, cultural significance of trees, and the nature of human cruelty.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Meta-discussion

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express outrage over the act, viewing it as a reflection of ignorance and cruelty, particularly given the trees' cultural significance.
  • Others argue that the act stems from meanness rather than ignorance, suggesting that the perpetrator may have been aware of the impact of his actions.
  • Several participants share personal anecdotes related to tree preservation efforts, drawing parallels between the current situation and past experiences with tree diseases.
  • Some contributions highlight the emotional connection people have to the trees, emphasizing their role in community identity and enjoyment.
  • Contrasting viewpoints emerge regarding the significance of the trees, with some downplaying their importance as merely replaceable resources.
  • A few participants express disbelief at the level of outrage, suggesting that the response is disproportionate to the act itself.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally do not reach consensus, with multiple competing views on the motivations behind the act and the appropriate level of outrage it warrants. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the implications of the act and the nature of the perpetrator's intentions.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various emotional and cultural perspectives on the trees, indicating a complex interplay of values and beliefs that influence their reactions. There is also a lack of clarity on the broader societal implications of such acts of vandalism.

Who May Find This Useful

Individuals interested in environmental ethics, community identity, and the cultural significance of natural landmarks may find this discussion relevant.

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http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/02/17/alabama.auburn.trees/index.html?hpt=T2

CNN said:
A man was arrested early Thursday and faces criminal mischief charges for allegedly applying a herbicide commonly used to kill trees and brush to landmark 130-year-old live oaks on the edge of the Auburn University campus in east-central Alabama, police said.

Harvey Updyke Jr. was taken into custody at the Auburn Police Department, Police Chief Tommy Dawson told reporters. He was being held in the Lee County Detention Facility in lieu of $50,000 bail, Dawson said. He will be charged with first-degree criminal mischief.

So, apparently this Rhodes Scholar decided to poison priceless live oaks over a sports revelry. Because he told this radio show 2 MONTHS after using this extremely effective tree-killer, those trees are likely doomed. To me, this is a microscopic view that illustrates the sheer ignorance that is at the core of so much casual cruelty. It's so very easy to destroy things, and so hard to preserve them, and how much do you want to bet that someone will be laughing that "tree-huggers" cried at a news conference.

Makes me sick.
 
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What a jerk. I can't say more or I'd violate the guidelines for civility. And this wasn't even some young kid, he's 62 years old!
 
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Evo said:
What a jerk. I can't say more or I'd violate the guidelines for civility. And this wasn't even some young kid, he's 62 years old!

Yep, that was my reaction.
 
nismaratwork said:
Yep, that was my reaction.
In the 60's we were in a mad fight to save Maine's elm trees from destruction by Dutch elm disease. Bingham's downtown and the University of Maine's beautiful Orono campus were horribly scarred by the loss of so many majestic trees. Nothing seemed to work. We had trees "tapped" and looking like sugar maples in the spring, except instead of removing sap, we were injecting compounds that we hoped would protect the elms from beetle-damage and/or the disease they carried. The organist in my college band was a horticulture major and the resident caretaker of the UMO greenhouse. He would be in tears to learn that someone had actually poisoned beautiful trees like that.

The city of Waterville was once known as "the Elm City" because of all the tall graceful elms lining its streets. You'd be hard-pressed to find a surviving elm today. Slow-motion damage, but just as devastating as a fire in the long term.
 
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When I first heard about this in the gym, about 3 hours, ago I wasn't too alarmed. However, as I walked out the gym I stopped to enjoy the beautiful weather we're having here in the south. I was admiring a set of beautiful trees, rustling in the wind for about 20 minutes.

It all of sudden hit me that this individual has destroyed a natural scene that countless people have enjoyed, and many will never admire. Not only has he destroyed a natural aritifact but a precious landscape that can't be easily recovered over a series of pathetic games.
 
czelaya said:
It all of sudden hit me that this individual has destroyed a natural scene that countless people have enjoyed, and many will never admire. Not only has he destroyed a natural aritifact but a precious landscape that can't be easily recovered over a series of pathetic games.

Wow way to descirbe nature! though its all very true
 
turbo-1 said:
In the 60's we were in a mad fight to save Maine's elm trees from destruction by Dutch elm disease. Bingham's downtown and the University of Maine's beautiful Orono campus were horribly scarred by the loss of so many majestic trees. Nothing seemed to work. We had trees "tapped" and looking like sugar maples the spring, except instead of removing sap, we were injecting compounds that we hoped would protect the elms from beetle-damage and/or the disease they carried. The organist in my college band was a horticulture major and the resident caretaker of the UMO greenhouse. He would be in tears to learn that someone had actually poisoned beautiful trees like that.

The city of Waterville was once known as "the Elm City" because of all the tall graceful elms lining its streets. You'd be hard-pressed to find a surviving elm today. Slow-motion damage, but just as devastating as a fire in the long term.

It's terrible, but for one person to do so much damage so quickly... horrific.

@czelaya: Well said, sad, but well said.
 
it's not ignorance, just meanness.

i'm not surprised that he called the Finebaum show to brag about it. Finebaum has been trolling the rednecks for years here. most don't take it too seriously, even though it is the state religion here, but some folks will get wound up like this.
 
Proton Soup said:
it's not ignorance, just meanness.

i'm not surprised that he called the Finebaum show to brag about it. Finebaum has been trolling the rednecks for years here. most don't take it too seriously, even though it is the state religion here, but some folks will get wound up like this.

He would have to be more than "mean" in my view to do this if he were genuinely aware of the impact he would have.
 
  • #10
This makes me very angry.
 
  • #11
nismaratwork said:
He would have to be more than "mean" in my view to do this if he were genuinely aware of the impact he would have.

a good portion of the fans will be ticked off.

as far as the trees? sure, they have cultural significance. but as a resource, they're a dime a dozen down here. we knock 'em down to build malls and housing all the time.
 
  • #12
Proton Soup said:
a good portion of the fans will be ticked off.

as far as the trees? sure, they have cultural significance. but as a resource, they're a dime a dozen down here. we knock 'em down to build malls and housing all the time.

I know... it's not as though he introduced the blight on American Chestnut... I'm just horrified by the sheer <series of curses in English, Hebrew, Russian, and a few other> of it.

Besides, there's something essentially disgusting about ANYONE, but especially a 67 year old man killing a tree that's made generations happy. It doesn't really matter if it made them happy for reasons I find silly... it was so... well you said it, it's mean.

@Chi Meson: I'm sorry that you're angry, but I'm glad this makes you angry.
 
  • #13
Man, some of you people are going nuts over a few trees. I expect this kind of disgust reserved for people like Osama Bin Laden, not some guy killing trees.
 
  • #14
My wife has only visited the deep south a couple of times with me. She was very impressed by the appearance of live-oaks. They are very dramatic-looking spreading trees compared to the "lean and mean" trees that can survive Maine's climate. When she saw this story on NBC news tonight, she was horrified. I didn't tell her about this thread or do a set-up of any kind. It was "wham!" and "how could someone do such a horrible thing?"
 
  • #15
Jack21222 said:
Man, some of you people are going nuts over a few trees. I expect this kind of disgust reserved for people like Osama Bin Laden, not some guy killing trees.
Trees? The trees are not the point. The point is that these particular trees were a focal point for school celebrations, and some idiot decided that he needed to take matters into his own hands and kill them to spite the supporters of a rival school. How sick is that?
 
  • #16
turbo-1 said:
Trees? The trees are not the point. The point is that these particular trees were a focal point for school celebrations, and some idiot decided that he needed to take matters into his own hands and kill them to spite the supporters of a rival school. How sick is that?

So? They'll plant new trees. Or buy them. It's not "sick" at all. Your average, workaday rapist is a thousand times more sickening than this person, maybe more, but I don't see people posting and flipping out about every single rape in this country every day.
 
  • #17
Jack21222 said:
So? They'll plant new trees. Or buy them. It's not "sick" at all. Your average, workaday rapist is a thousand times more sickening than this person, maybe more, but I don't see people posting and flipping out about every single rape in this country every day.
New trees won't reach that size in the lifetime of anyone here. The point is that it was a wasteful, spiteful, stupid thing to do because of a crazed sports rivalry.
 
  • #18
Are you saying that people shouldn't be sad about a hit and run driver who kills a cherished family pet for example, because rape is much more horrible?

This isn't really meant to be a contest.
 
  • #19
Jack21222 said:
So? They'll plant new trees. Or buy them. It's not "sick" at all. Your average, workaday rapist is a thousand times more sickening than this person, maybe more, but I don't see people posting and flipping out about every single rape in this country every day.

I think that there is a relation between deriving pleasure from animal abuse and the mindset of someone who destroys living history as a thrill.

What if someone were to vandalize the Smithsonian? No harm done, just some dusty artifacts.

To those individuals raped it is a big deal.
 
  • #20
turbo-1 said:
Trees? The trees are not the point. The point is that these particular trees were a focal point for school celebrations, and some idiot decided that he needed to take matters into his own hands and kill them to spite the supporters of a rival school. How sick is that?

Genuinely sick in my view.
 
  • #21
Evo said:
New trees won't reach that size in the lifetime of anyone here. The point is that it was a wasteful, spiteful, stupid thing to do because of a crazed sports rivalry.

Agreed, but in addition to all of those things, it is minor. On the scale of evil from 1 to 10, with 1 being jaywalking and 10 being Hitler, this is a 3 at best.
 
  • #22
Jack21222 said:
Agreed, but in addition to all of those things, it is minor. On the scale of evil from 1 to 10, with 1 being jaywalking and 10 being Hitler, this is a 3 at best.
But we're not discussing other crimes, or how this crime compares to other crimes. Please do not derail the discussion.
 
  • #23
Evo said:
New trees won't reach that size in the lifetime of anyone here. The point is that it was a wasteful, spiteful, stupid thing to do because of a crazed sports rivalry.
I saw a spill where trees couldn't get a start for years. I suppose if all the soil was replaced (half a city block) would have been okay.
 
  • #24
dlgoff said:
I saw a spill where trees couldn't get a start for years. I suppose if all the soil was replaced (half a city block) would have been okay.

Phew... it's already going to be a huge cost to clean this... apparently this 'rouge genius' used FIFTY times the concentration of this already (absurdly) effective herbacide. He's going to spend the rest of his life in and out of civil court because of this, if he's LUCKY.
 
  • #26
Evo said:
But we're not discussing other crimes, or how this crime compares to other crimes. Please do not derail the discussion.

I AM talking about how this crime compares with other crimes, and that is ON topic. You have no basis to declare comparisons to other crimes off-limits. It's completely arbitrary on your part.

Killing trees is not a major crime. It's hardly worth mentioning. How you can say that statement is off-topic is beyond me.
 
  • #27
Jack21222 said:
I AM talking about how this crime compares with other crimes, and that is ON topic. You have no basis to declare comparisons to other crimes off-limits. It's completely arbitrary on your part.

Killing trees is not a major crime. It's hardly worth mentioning. How you can say that statement is off-topic is beyond me.
Catch a clue. If you were to kill my dog (with legal deniability so i didn't have any recourse, like dumping toxic anti-freeze all over my driveway), your action would still be reprehensible. If you were to poison the two apple trees near my front border, so my wife and I and friends could not enjoy the fruits, your action would be reprehensible. Do you not get this? The actions of sociopaths cannot be covered by excuses or misdirections.
 
  • #29
turbo-1 said:
Catch a clue. If you were to kill my dog (with legal deniability so i didn't have any recourse, like dumping toxic anti-freeze all over my driveway), your action would still be reprehensible. If you were to poison the two apple trees near my front border, so my wife and I and friends could not enjoy the fruits, your action would be reprehensible. Do you not get this? The actions of sociopaths cannot be covered by excuses or misdirections.

Nowhere did I ever say his actions were right. What he did was quite clearly wrong. What I'm saying is it's nowhere near as wrong as a dozen other things that you don't care about at all. Life isn't a binary thing. Just because mass-murder and killing a tree are both "wrong" doesn't mean it makes sense to have the same kind of visceral reaction to both.

This was a property crime. Fine the man and put him on probation, and let's all move on with our lives.
 
  • #30
OK... I'm going to go out on a limb here (yes, just said that):

Jack... you recently lost someone you cared about, so I completely understand why a dead tree of purely sentimental value would not faze you right now. By the same token, maybe that would be the case anytime, but from what I've read of your posts, that's not the case.

You're missing a few basics here that I don't believe you normally would: This chemical is illegal to use in the manner that he did, and the concentration he had may not have been legal without a license. His application of it to the soil may have effects beyond the tree: this is a NASTY thing, Spike-8; you don't apply it without warning flags for one. Using such a high concentration without warning is truly unwise, and if a pet, or a baby or someone else with Pica ate that dirt... badness.

There's an element of depraved indifference here that, if harm has been done to a person or pet, he's going to be facing legal penalties for. Beyond that, the decontamination of the soil, given that 2 MONTHS passed between applying the Spike and "confessing" to that radio station... well... that decon is going to be expensive.

As property crimes go, this is an exceptionally short-sighted one that may still go beyond simple property crime.

Note that my case above lacks any sentimentality for the tree (which I do feel); there is a rational argument for why this man is dangerous.