Polynomial question from spivak's calculus

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around a polynomial problem from Spivak's Calculus, specifically focusing on constructing a polynomial function of degree n - 1 that takes the value 1 at one of the distinct numbers x1, ..., xn and 0 at the others. Participants are exploring the implications of the problem statement and the notation used.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants express confusion regarding the meaning of the distinct numbers x1, ..., xn and the notation used in the problem. Questions arise about the interpretation of the polynomial function and the significance of the capital-pi notation. Some attempt to clarify the requirements by providing examples of polynomial construction.

Discussion Status

The discussion is active, with participants sharing their interpretations and examples. Some have begun to understand the relationship between the degree of the polynomial and the number of zeros required. There is acknowledgment of potential typos in the hint provided in the problem, which has led to further exploration of the notation and its implications.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the problem's abstraction and notation may pose challenges, particularly in understanding the requirements for constructing the polynomial. There is also mention of the potential for confusion due to the hint's wording.

osnarf
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Question from spivak's calculus - 3rd edition - chapter 3, question 6(a).


Homework Statement


If x1, ..., xn are distinct numbers, find a polynomial function fi of degree n - 1 which is 1 at xi and 0 at xj for j =/= i. Hint, the product of all (x - xi) for j =/= i, is 0 at xj if j =/= i. (This product is usually denoted by see below, the symbol (capital pi) playing the same role for products that sigma plays for sums.)


Homework Equations



n
[tex]\prod(x - x<sub>j</sub>)[/tex]
j = 1
j =/= i

The Attempt at a Solution


I really don't even know where to start, the question is really confusing. If someone could just explain the question better that would be really appreciated. I'm confused by just about every word:

-x1,...,xn <--- Are these just random numbers? or are they increments along the x axis? or ?
-why does the function have a subscript (...find a polynomial function fi)?
-which x is xi?
-which x is xj?
-when he says (x - xi), I would assume x is not a distinct number, but the variable x, and that xi is meant to represent one of each of the distinct x's each time and that they are multiplied together, but later he asks for a specific function value at xi. I don't understand that.
-why did he need to write j =/= i twice, about 5 words apart (not trying to be sarcastic I'm sure there's a reason i just don't know why).
-in response to the capital-Pi eqation: so xj is x1?

Thanks for helping, I'm sure I can figure out the problem once i understand what it is. If someone could just explain it to me I would really appreciate it.
 
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The [tex]x_1,...,x_n[/tex] are just random numbers.

Maybe you'll understand it better if I gave you an example. Consider the numbers 1 and 2.
The question asks that we construct two polynomials:
1) We want to construct a polynomial f such that f(1)=1 and f(2)=0. An example of such a polynomial is f(x)=-x+2
2) We also want a polynomial f such that f(1)=0 and f(2)=1. An example of such a polynomial is f(x)=x-1.


We can also consider the numbers 0,1,2. Then the question asks us to construct three polynomials. One of these polynomials will be an f such that f(0)=1, f(1)=0 and f(2)=0. An example of such a polynomial is [tex]f(x)=\frac{1}{2}x^2-\frac{3}{2}x+1[/tex].
The other two polynomials can also be constructed, but I'll leave that to you...
 
Sorry, I'm still confused. I understand how to construct polynomials to fit specifications, it is the abstraction of the question that is really getting me. And i just peeked in the solutions manual and the answer isn't in standard polynomial form its in the form of a capital-pi divided by another capital pi. Anyhow, in regards to your examples, why is the question asking us to make multiple polynomials?

Thanks for your quick response.
 
You're just given [tex]x_1,x_2,...,x_n[/tex] real numbers and you're asked to construct a polynomail f such that [tex]f(x_1)=1,f(x_2)=0,...,f(x_n)=0[/tex]. That's all they're asking from you here.

The answer will be in capital-pi notation because that is the easiest way to represent the polynomail in.

What I suggest is that you take some examples and construct the requested polynomial. For example, take [tex]x_1=0,x_1=2,x_2=-1[/tex]. Can you now build a polynomial such that f(0)=1, f(2)=0 and f(-1)=0??
Once you've found that, try to handle the general case. You'll see immediately why the capital-pi notation comes in.
 
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So the value of the function at one of the x's needs to be 1, and at all the others it will be 0?
Could you please explain to me how your getting that from the notations. I have a feeling the rest of the book is going to be just like this and if i don't get the notation down I'm going to be frustrated very much for the next few months.
 
I understand part of it now. Because the degree is n - 1 there would have to be n - 1 zeros. I overlooked that. And I understand why it is in capital-pi notation now, after playing around with it. We are getting somewhere, :P.

Okay, now how about the hint.

It says the product of all (x - xi), for j =/= i, is 0 at xj if j =/= i.

xj is the zero of the function, so in your example with x1 = 1 and x2 = 0, if we multiplied all the (x - xi), where j =/= i, together, we would have only one so it would be (x - x1) = (x - 1). It says this product is 0 at xj if j =/= i, so if i were to plug xj into this: (xj - 1) = (2 - 1) = 1 =/= 0, so clearly I'm still confused.
 
I've come to the conclusion there is a typo in the hint and it is supposed to read (x - xj), if I'm wrong correct me please it would make a lot more sense.

---------------

thank you micro, figured it out. i was making that problem way harder than it was
 
Last edited:
Yes, I think you are correct and that there is a typo in the hint. Nice catch!
 
osnarf said:
I've come to the conclusion there is a typo in the hint and it is supposed to read (x - xj), if I'm wrong correct me please it would make a lot more sense.

---------------

thank you micro, figured it out. i was making that problem way harder than it was

zomfg meetooooo.

kinda pissed that I've been fretting about this for quite some time and come to find out there's a freakin typo!
 

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