Pressure in a Cooker at 390.2 K and 6 L Volume with 27 g Water

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around calculating the pressure in a pressure cooker containing 27 grams of water at a temperature of 390.2 K and a volume of 6 L. The conversation explores the application of the ideal gas law and the behavior of water under these conditions, considering both theoretical and practical aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants apply the ideal gas law (PV = nRT) to calculate pressure, suggesting that the pressure can be derived directly from the equation.
  • Others argue that at 390.2 K, water behaves as a saturated mixture of liquid and vapor, indicating that the ideal gas law may not be applicable and that saturation pressure should be referenced instead.
  • One participant suggests that the problem may assume all water has evaporated, proposing a simpler approach by converting grams of water to moles for use in the ideal gas law.
  • Another participant counters this by emphasizing that the pressure inside the cooker is significantly higher than atmospheric pressure, and the boiling point is elevated due to the fixed volume, which affects the state of the water.
  • Specific thermodynamic parameters, such as temperature and specific volume, are mentioned as sufficient to determine the state of the water, with calculations provided for the quality of the mixture.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the applicability of the ideal gas law in this scenario. Some maintain that it can be used, while others assert that the conditions necessitate consideration of saturation pressure and the state of the water as a mixture.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights limitations in assumptions about the state of water at high temperatures and pressures, as well as the need to verify specific conditions such as quality and saturation pressure.

gwiber
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1. A pressure cooker with a volume of 6 L is filled with 27 grams of water and heated to 390.2 K. What is the pressure (atm) in the cooker



2. 3) PV = nRT



3. P(6)=27*0.082*390.2
P=144
 
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gwiber said:
1. A pressure cooker with a volume of 6 L is filled with 27 grams of water and heated to 390.2 K. What is the pressure (atm) in the cooker

2. 3) PV = nRT

3. P(6)=27*0.082*390.2
P=144


At these conditions water is not an ideal gas. It is a saturated mixture of liquid and vapor. You need to look up the saturation pressure that goes with that temperature, and also confirm that the specific volume falls between vf and vg.

BBB
 
I think that the problem is probably asking for a much simpler approach. Since 390.2 K=117.2 degrees Celsius, the problem likely assumes that all the water is evaporated in the cooker. You have the equation PV=nRT, which can be rewritten as P=(nRT)/V. For n, you need to convert 27 g water to moles of water.
 
ptolema said:
I think that the problem is probably asking for a much simpler approach. Since 390.2 K=117.2 degrees Celsius, the problem likely assumes that all the water is evaporated in the cooker. You have the equation PV=nRT, which can be rewritten as P=(nRT)/V. For n, you need to convert 27 g water to moles of water.

No, that is not correct. Water at these conditions is a mixture of saturated liquid and vapor and the ideal gas law does not apply. You are trying to reason from the boiling point at atmospheric pressure, not understanding that the pressure inside the fixed-volume cooker is considerably higher than atmospheric and has a much higher boiling point (for the given specific volume, somewhere around 170-175 deg C).

Two thermodynamic parameters are given: the temperature T=390.2 K and the specific volume = 0.006/0.027 m3/kg = 0.222 m3/kg. This is enough to determine the state completely. In particular, it is not hard to compute that the quality is 0.22745, i.e. the mixture is 22.75% liquid and 77.25% vapor.

So to solve the problem correctly, the OP needs to find the saturation pressure and verify that the quality is between 0% and 100%.

BBB
 

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