Principles behind galaxy formation

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the principles behind galaxy formation, exploring the roles of gravity, quantum fluctuations, and the dynamics of matter in the early universe. Participants examine the conditions necessary for clusters of galaxies to form from homogeneous matter, considering both theoretical and conceptual aspects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that gravity is the primary force behind galaxy formation, but question how it leads to the clustering of matter rather than merely causing objects to pass by each other at high velocities.
  • Others mention that quantum fluctuations in the early universe may have provided the initial seeds for galaxy formation, though the details of this process are not fully understood.
  • A participant argues that friction plays a crucial role in the collapse of gas and dust under gravity, as it allows kinetic energy to be radiated away, enabling particles to slow down and cluster together.
  • There is a suggestion that galaxies may form more readily from gas and dust than from randomly distributed solid pieces, due to the higher likelihood of collisions in a gaseous medium.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the mechanisms of galaxy formation, particularly regarding the roles of gravity, friction, and the initial conditions of matter. No consensus is reached on the precise processes involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants note the importance of initial irregularities and the influence of friction, but the discussion remains open-ended regarding the specific conditions and mechanisms necessary for galaxy formation.

jostpuur
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When things are kept at the simplest, I've heard that galaxies were formed because gravity pulls stuff together, but there's some things that are not fully making sense. If two objects are far away, and they get attracted by gravity, what happens is that they merely pass each others with some great velocity and fly far away again, according to the conservation of energy. So what is it really that makes clusters start forming out of homogeneous matter then?
 
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jostpuur said:
When things are kept at the simplest, I've heard that galaxies were formed because gravity pulls stuff together, but there's some things that are not fully making sense. If two objects are far away, and they get attracted by gravity, what happens is that they merely pass each others with some great velocity and fly far away again, according to the conservation of energy. So what is it really that makes clusters start forming out of homogeneous matter then?

Supposedly, quantum fluctuations in the early universe provided the seeds for (clusters of) galaxy formation. This an Interesting story that I don't understand fully.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=246423

https://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=1818318#post1818318
 
jostpuur said:
When things are kept at the simplest, I've heard that galaxies were formed because gravity pulls stuff together, but there's some things that are not fully making sense. If two objects are far away, and they get attracted by gravity, what happens is that they merely pass each others with some great velocity and fly far away again, according to the conservation of energy. So what is it really that makes clusters start forming out of homogeneous matter then?

You are neglecting friction in this scenario. As gas and dust collapse under the influence of gravity the particles collide more and more frequently as the density increases. Thus a lot of the kinetic energy is radiated away as heat leaving the particles moving more slowly than otherwise. Provided there is enough inhomogenaity to start with, friction does the rest.
 
The story about formation of original irregularities after big bang wasn't precisely what I was after, although that seems to be another interesting story too. I was wandering, that even if there is some irregularities to start with, how can gravity start causing clusters to emerge, when matter should be flying far away after first coming close to some other matter. I suppose the answer is the friction mentioned by paw then.

Am I correct to guess that galaxies could not start forming out of randomly distributed pieces of rocks in the space, as easily as they start forming out of gas and dust? Because pieces of rocks have less chance of colliding, they just fly in hyperbola trajectories by each others? Gas and dust instead gets slowed down by friction more easily?
 

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