Probablity robotics, Bayes filter reasoning problem

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around understanding a specific formula (2.42) from the "Probabilistic Robotics" book, particularly in the context of Bayes filter reasoning. Participants explore the assumptions behind the formula, the relationship between control actions and sensor outputs, and the implications for practical implementation in robotics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses confusion about the assumptions underlying formula 2.42, suggesting that it relies on the door and robot actuator functioning correctly, as well as the nature of the sensing output.
  • Another participant asserts that formula 2.42 follows directly from the preceding text and clarifies that the probabilities mentioned (0.8 and 0.2) relate to the door's state after an action, not to sensor noise.
  • A later reply questions the source of the assumptions regarding sensor reliability, proposing that they might stem from empirical testing of the robot's performance in opening a closed door.
  • Some participants mention that the values used in the example are free parameters chosen by the author and do not necessarily reflect sensor performance.
  • There is a suggestion that practical implementation of such algorithms would require extensive testing to determine the reliability of the robot's sensors and actuators over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the assumptions behind formula 2.42, with some arguing that it is based on empirical data while others view it as a theoretical construct. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the practical implications of the assumptions made in the example.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about the assumptions made in the example, particularly concerning the reliability of sensors and actuators in a real-world setting. There is also a recognition that the internal state of the robot may change over time, affecting the applicability of the algorithm.

cncnewbee
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Hi,
On section 2.4.2. of the "Probabilistic robotics" book, there is an example to demonstrate the way a Bayes filter works. I only can't understand one point in the example, I hope you help to get it.

This is the whole example:
33usc4w.png


The point I can't get to, is the formula (2.42). I think there is assumptions that are not mentioned there. I guess that for 2.42, the Writer assumption is that the door is functioning well and the robot actuator is also working correctly, and finally, the Xt is a sensing output, because the 0.2 is exactly the same error I see in the formula, one line above the formula 2.40, when the door is closed but is sensing open (sensory noise). From the other side, from reading the text it seems to me that P(X=x | Ut, Xt-1) is at all not about the sensing, but about the control, action and this together with assuming Xt an output of the sensor brings me to contradiction.

I would be very happy to know what is the reason behind 2.42.
From that point onward or backward, all is clear.

Thank you,
 
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2.42 just follows from the text above the equation. If the door is closed, and the robot tries to open it, it is open with p=.8 afterwards (first line), and closed with p=.2 (second line).

because the 0.2 is exactly the same error I see in the formula, one line above the formula 2.40
That is not related to 2.42.
 
mfb said:
2.42 just follows from the text above the equation. If the door is closed, and the robot tries to open it, it is open with p=.8 afterwards (first line), and closed with p=.2 (second line).
That is not related to 2.42.

Thanks, now more clear if they are not related.

Still I can't get this: where form does the Author obtained that information / assumption? If thinking of the assumption on the noise of the sensor, I imagine that they repeated a sequence of experiments, placing hypothesis and concluded that the reliability of sensing is 0.8 in case the door is closed. Could it be that they tried many times to open a closed door by robot's actuator, and then counting success and failure, to state the probability?

If so, then for such an algorithm to be implemented on a concrete robot, it must be first tested to get to these, but then, the internal state of robot is constantly changing (sensors getting worst, actuator slightly malfunctioning) and so this algorithm is more theoretical than practical?

I'm first time reading a book on the subject, not sure of my own reasoning.
 
It is just part of the example. Those are free parameters, and the author can choose them. It has nothing to do with the sensors.
To get those numbers in a real setup, you could watch the robot trying to open the door 100 times and observe the result manually.
 
mfb said:
It is just part of the example. Those are free parameters, and the author can choose them. It has nothing to do with the sensors.
To get those numbers in a real setup, you could watch the robot trying to open the door 100 times and observe the result manually.

Thank you very much for helping me!
 

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