Problems with electromagnet force and weak force

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the nature of the electromagnetic and weak forces, particularly focusing on the concept of energy borrowing from the vacuum in the context of particle interactions. Participants explore theoretical aspects of these forces, referencing quantum field theory and the implications of the uncertainty principle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant states that the electromagnetic force is mediated by massless photons, giving it infinite range, while the weak force is mediated by massive bosons (W+ and W- around 80 GeV, Z0 around 90 GeV).
  • Another participant questions the need for intermediate bosons to be "created out of nothing," seeking clarification on the concept of "borrowing" energy from the vacuum.
  • A participant references the uncertainty principle, suggesting that energy can be borrowed if it is repaid within a very short time frame.
  • One participant challenges the interpretation of the uncertainty principle, arguing that it is a statistical relation and not an energy-time uncertainty relation.
  • There is a request for elaboration on the misunderstanding of the uncertainty principle and its application in this context.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the interpretation of the uncertainty principle and its relevance to the discussion of energy borrowing in particle physics. There is no consensus on these interpretations, and the discussion remains unresolved.

Contextual Notes

Some claims rely on specific definitions and interpretations of quantum mechanics, particularly regarding the uncertainty principle and its implications for energy interactions.

Rico L
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The electromagnetic force is mediated by photons , which have 0 mass. so electromagnetic forces have infinite range. the weak force is mediated by three intermediate bosons, W+, W-and Z0 particles. these all have mass, the two W particles about 80GeV and the Z is about 90GeV.

the bit below is what i don't really get...

"in order to carry out the weak interaction from 1 particle to the next, the appropriate intermediate boson has to be created out of nothing at all." but why? and it says "using energy borrowed from the vacuum."

what does it mean by " borrow " the energy from the vacuum.


thanks ..
 
Physics news on Phys.org
can you tells us where you find those quotes?

it seems that they steam from some introductory semi-quantum field theory explanation...
 
oh.. i got it from a book ..
 
it is from an article of "grand unified theories(GUTs)"

further reading: G.D.Coughlan and J.E Dodd, " the idea of particle physic; Yuval Ne'eman and Yoram Kirsch, " the particle hunters "

thats it ppl... sorry..
 
Rico L said:
... the appropriate intermediate boson has to be created out of nothing at all. but why?

The mass/energy of the interacting particles isn't enough to create the 80 or 90 GeV boson, so the virtual boson borrows energy from the vacuum.


what does it mean by " borrow " the energy from the vacuum.


The uncertainty principle allows for energy to be 'borrowed' if it is paid-back within a (very) short time.

Neil
 
captn said:
The uncertainty principle allows for energy to be 'borrowed' if it is paid-back within a (very) short time.

No you are miss using the HUP, firstly hup is a statistical relation for many event is QUantum Mechanics

secondly, you are progably referring to delta E delta t ~ hbar
which is NOT am uncertainty principle, there is not energy-time uncertainty relation!
 
ansgar said:
secondly, you are progably referring to delta E delta t ~ hbar
which is NOT am uncertainty principle, there is not energy-time uncertainty relation!
Care to elaborate?
 

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