Problems with entering the academia

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In summary, the conversation discusses the decision of whether or not to pursue a physics Ph.D and the potential career paths that come with it. The speaker, who is currently an undergraduate, has doubts about the time commitment and financial stability of pursuing a Ph.D and wonders if it is worth it in the long run. They also inquire about the types of jobs typically obtained with a Ph.D and the difference between getting a Ph.D or a Masters in physics. The conversation also touches on the importance of considering personal passions and goals when making this decision.
  • #1
dsanz
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Hello everyone,
I'm currently on my last year as an undergraduate, and I've been thinking a lot about going into graduate school lately. I have some big doubts regarding the big question of weather I should or should not enter grad school and try to pursuit an academic career.
1. First off... I have a girlfriend and our relationship is quite serious and strong. I am really thinking about marrying her in the future (hopefully not so distant future). I will be 23 years old this August. Getting a physics Ph.D will take between 4 and 7 years I believe. So supposing I get my Ph.D just before I'm 30, I would then search for post-doc positions and probably, if everything goes well, land a decent job when I am around 33 or something. So that's 10 years (and I think I'm being very optimistic) before getting a decent, stable income and in order to be thinking about having a family. I don't know if I'd be willing to wait that long before getting a nice house for my future wife (and possibly children). How do physics Ph.D's handle this situation? Do they just put a stop on those other plans for 10 or more years and wait to land a good job? Or do they go along with their personal plans and see how they survive and handle everything while they're still students??
2. Second, and I know this has probably been answered before... What other kinds of jobs do physics Ph.D's normally land? I put normally in bold because I know there are a lot of people who get jobs totally outside their field (this happens in every discipline), and those are probably not good references. But, what other job could you reasonably aim at with a physics Ph.D at hand?
And another question, related to the last one: if instead of getting a Ph.D I get a Masters in physics, do I get these same other jobs? What would be the advantages/disadvantages with each degree?

And just some info. about myself: I live in Mexico, speak english fluently, and I'm majoring in physics and engineering. I really have a passion for physics. The two main fields that have caught my eye are general relativity and elemantary particles. I actually took a GR course while studying as an exchange student in Toronto, Canada. I understand that taking the Ph.D path is very, very, tough, and demans some great deal of discipline and hard work. I want to make sure if the tough road is worth the wait so that I can live a happy and satisfying life. I suppose some or most of you won't be able to answer all of my questions, but I'll be very glad with any input anyone can give me. I hope that your responses will help me in deciding what to do in this critical point of my life.
 
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  • #2
dsanz said:
2. Second, and I know this has probably been answered before... What other kinds of jobs do physics Ph.D's normally land?

Other than academia, it would be the same kind of jobs you'd get with a Bsc or Msc in industry. Working in just about any kind of manufacturing/research industry. Things like defence, aeronautics, electronics (TVs etc, and even then, the big electronics companies mostly have interests in medical devices too - so you can work for Siemens on MRI, ultrasound etc for instance), medical devices, power companies (not just nuclear, there are calculations to be done for all types of power :smile:). I guess it depends if you consider these jobs as physics, each of these types of industry will have their own R&D divisions that will look for physicists. Obviously, if you have a PhD in the specific interest of one of these industries then you'll have a better chance and probably a little bump up the ladder.

dsanz said:
And another question, related to the last one: if instead of getting a Ph.D I get a Masters in physics, do I get these same other jobs? What would be the advantages/disadvantages with each degree?

Don't go for a PhD to improve career prospects. Go for a PhD only if you really want to. I know many people that have obtained their PhDs and went into industry jobs that they could have achieved with their Bsc, (to use a specific example, the resultant advantage was that they started on £500pa more than the successful applicants that only had a Bsc).
 
  • #3
I don't know fasterthanjoao atleast in the US getting those sort of jobs with a physics B.Sc. isn't incredibly likely. More like an engineering degree to work in those fields. Depends exactly what you want to do.
 
  • #4
dsanz;2656162 I don't know if I'd be willing to wait that long before getting a nice house for my future wife (and possibly children). How do physics Ph.D's handle this situation?[/QUOTE said:
Some of us give up looking for jobs in academia and then go into industry.

Second, and I know this has probably been answered before... What other kinds of jobs do physics Ph.D's normally land?

Computer programming, investment banking, science journalism, etc. etc. One important thing to remember is that having a physics Ph.D. doesn't mean that you can or should search for jobs that *require* a physics Ph.D. I don't think I've ever had a job that absolutely required a Ph.d.

But, what other job could you reasonably aim at with a physics Ph.D at hand?
And another question, related to the last one: if instead of getting a Ph.D I get a Masters in physics, do I get these same other jobs?

Not necessary a masters in physics, but a CS masters or an MBA. One consequence of this is that you shouldn't get your Ph.D. primarily for career reasons. If you are interested mainly in making money, the extra few years of the Ph.D. isn't worth it. On the other hand, don't *not* do the Ph.D. for career reasons.

I understand that taking the Ph.D path is very, very, tough, and demands some great deal of discipline and hard work. I want to make sure if the tough road is worth the wait so that I can live a happy and satisfying life.

Hard work and discipline is part of a happy and satisfying life for some people.

This is an important point because it's a bad idea to think of getting a Ph.D. as a sacrifice for the future. I'm working almost as hard and doing more or less the same things that I was doing in graduate school. It doesn't get any easier.
 
  • #5
Define what you consider is a good and satisfying life.

If it is a well-paying job that is more than enough to support a family, then I'll drop the PhD. and go for a M.S. in engineering or MBA.

If it is doing what you would do even if you didn't get paid for, then a Ph.D is worth going.
 
  • #6
Thanks for your responses.

My only concern right now is that the time between entering a Ph.D program and having a decent job can be very long. That really is my only concern. I'm not willing to wait until I'm like 35 to get a good job. I want a family much earlier than that. Any advice?
 
  • #7
If you want to support your family with a job, then skip the PhD and just go to work. That is what I did, and I have never regretted it. There are lots of engineering type jobs you can get with a bachelors in physics. It is indeed usual for PhD students to either delay marriage or children or both. If you are truly interested in a family, then going into industry will make your goals easier.
 
  • #8
fizziks said:
If it is a well-paying job that is more than enough to support a family, then I'll drop the PhD. and go for a M.S. in engineering or MBA.

I'd very strongly disagree. With university housing and daycare, you'll be able to support a family while you are doing the Ph.D. It won't be luxurious, but it's doable. After you get the Ph.D., there are tons of well-paying jobs out there as long as you don't confine yourself to academia.

One thing that makes a big difference is that even though you will be pinching pennies while getting the Ph.D., you'll leave the program without much if any debt.
 
  • #9
dsanz said:
My only concern right now is that the time between entering a Ph.D program and having a decent job can be very long. That really is my only concern. I'm not willing to wait until I'm like 35 to get a good job. I want a family much earlier than that. Any advice?

Go to a university with good childcare services, health insurance, and subsidized housing for Ph.D. students in a place with good elementary schools, and you'll survive graduate school with kids. You'll have to watch every single penny, but it's doable.
 
  • #10
dsanz said:
My only concern right now is that the time between entering a Ph.D program and having a decent job can be very long. That really is my only concern. I'm not willing to wait until I'm like 35 to get a good job. I want a family much earlier than that. Any advice?

Go to a university with good childcare services, health insurance, and subsidized housing for Ph.D. students in a place with good elementary schools, and you'll survive graduate school with kids. You'll have to watch every single penny, but it's doable. At some point it might get old, and one reason I didn't try very hard to get a post-doc was that after seven years of graduate school, my wife and I got tired of pinching pennies.

The other thing that I've seen are either two Ph.D. households in which either both people are doing graduate school at the same time, or one does graduate school while the other one works, and they switch.

One other weird thing about academia is that most universities when offering a faculty position to one person will also offer a job to their spouse.
 
  • #11
twofish-quant said:
I'd very strongly disagree. With university housing and daycare, you'll be able to support a family while you are doing the Ph.D. It won't be luxurious, but it's doable. After you get the Ph.D., there are tons of well-paying jobs out there as long as you don't confine yourself to academia.

One thing that makes a big difference is that even though you will be pinching pennies while getting the Ph.D., you'll leave the program without much if any debt.

I meant after his Ph.D. But I misunderstood his question that he was referring to during graduate school.
 

What are the common challenges faced when entering the academia?

Entering the academia can be a daunting experience, and some challenges that are commonly faced include:

  • Competition for positions and funding: The number of applicants for academic positions and grants can be high, making it difficult to secure a position or funding.
  • Publishing and research expectations: Academia is a publish or perish environment, and early-career researchers may struggle to meet the high expectations for publishing and research productivity.
  • Limited job security: Many academic positions are contract-based and offer limited job security, leading to uncertainty and stress for early-career academics.
  • Balancing teaching and research: Academics are expected to excel in both teaching and research, which can be challenging to balance, especially for new academics.
  • Work-life balance: The demands of academia can be overwhelming, leaving little time for personal and family life.

How important is networking for success in academia?

Networking is crucial for success in academia, as it allows researchers to connect with colleagues, potential collaborators, and mentors. Networking can also lead to opportunities for publishing, funding, and career advancement. Building a strong network can help early-career academics navigate the challenges of academia and establish themselves in their field.

What are some strategies for overcoming obstacles in academia?

Some strategies for overcoming obstacles in academia include:

  • Seeking mentorship: Connecting with experienced academics and seeking their advice and guidance can be invaluable in navigating the challenges of academia.
  • Building a strong support system: Having a network of colleagues, friends, and family who can offer support and understanding can help early-career academics cope with the stress of academia.
  • Continuing professional development: Taking advantage of workshops, conferences, and other opportunities for professional development can help early-career academics develop new skills and stay competitive in the academic job market.
  • Setting realistic goals: It's important for academics to set achievable goals and prioritize their workload to avoid feeling overwhelmed.
  • Maintaining a work-life balance: Taking time for self-care, hobbies, and relationships outside of academia can help academics prevent burnout and maintain a healthy work-life balance.

What resources are available for early-career academics facing challenges in academia?

There are several resources available for early-career academics facing challenges in academia, including:

  • Mentorship programs: Many universities and professional organizations offer mentorship programs for early-career academics.
  • Career development services: Universities often have career development services that offer workshops, counseling, and resources for early-career academics.
  • Professional associations: Joining a professional association in your field can provide access to networking opportunities, conferences, and resources for career development.
  • Online communities: There are many online communities and forums where early-career academics can connect with others facing similar challenges and seek advice and support.
  • Self-help books and articles: There are numerous books and articles available that offer advice and tips for navigating the challenges of academia.

Is it normal to experience imposter syndrome in academia?

Imposter syndrome, the feeling of being a fraud and not deserving of one's accomplishments, is a common experience in academia, especially for early-career academics. The competitive and high-pressure nature of academia can contribute to these feelings. It's important to recognize that imposter syndrome is a common experience and seek support from colleagues and mentors to overcome these feelings.

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