Problems with Existential Instantiation

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    Logic Predicate logic
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the rules of existential instantiation (EI) and universal instantiation (UI) in symbolic logic, particularly focusing on the necessity of using a "fresh name/variable" for EI and the implications of the order in which these instantiations are applied. Participants explore the reasoning behind the requirement that EI precedes UI and the consequences of potentially selecting elements that do not satisfy certain properties.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question why a "fresh name/variable" is required for existential instantiation and argue that it seems unnecessary if elements are being picked at random from the universe of discourse.
  • There is a concern that if universal instantiation is performed first, it may select an element that does not satisfy the existential property, leading to potential logical inconsistencies.
  • One participant expresses confusion about the logic behind identifying an element for the universal property before establishing the existence of an element that satisfies the existential property.
  • A later reply reflects a realization about the complexities of reading symbolic logic, suggesting a learning process regarding these concepts.
  • Another participant introduces a perspective on non-presupposition-free logic, discussing how universal and existential quantificational expressions are interpreted in relation to existence and designation.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the necessity and implications of the order of instantiation, indicating that the discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing perspectives on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the potential misunderstanding of the implications of universal and existential quantification, as well as the assumptions underlying the interpretations of these logical expressions.

Terrell
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Why is it required to use a "fresh name/variable"? And because of that requirement, Existential instantiation always precedes universal instantiation. What I am thinking is, If we are picking elements at random from our universe of discourse then why can't universal instantiation pick that random element first before existential instantiation does? I would understand the rule that we cannot existentially instantiate more than one element(which will need more than one name/variable) because we can never be sure there is more than one, but the reason EI precedes UI in picking a random element eludes me.
 
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Terrell said:
Why is it required to use a "fresh name/variable"? And because of that requirement, Existential instantiation always precedes universal instantiation. What I am thinking is, If we are picking elements at random from our universe of discourse then why can't universal instantiation pick that random element first before existential instantiation does? I would understand the rule that we cannot existentially instantiate more than one element(which will need more than one name/variable) because we can never be sure there is more than one, but the reason EI precedes UI in picking a random element eludes me.
If you do universal instantiation first, how do you know that it did not pick an element, c, which does not satisfy the existential property? Also, it seems pointless to identify an element, c, for the universal property before an element which satisfies the existential property is identified.
 
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FactChecker said:
If you do universal instantiation first, how do you know that it did not pick an element, c, which does not satisfy the existential property? Also, it seems pointless to identify an element, c, for the universal property before an element which satisfies the existential property is identified.
FactChecker said:
If you do universal instantiation first, how do you know that it did not pick an element, c, which does not satisfy the existential property? Also, it seems pointless to identify an element, c, for the universal property before an element which satisfies the existential property is identified.
it all make sense now. was simply not used to reading symbolic logic. lol
 
In non-presupposition-free logic the interpretation of the universal quantificational expression (∀x)[Px] as equivalent to the infinite conjunction (P1 Λ P2 Λ P3 ...) presupposes that every term designates, and the interpretation of the existential quantificational expression (∃x)[Px] as equivalent to the infinite disjunction (P1 V P2 V P3 ...) presupposes that something exists.
 

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