Product of discontinuous functions

  • Context: MHB 
  • Thread starter Thread starter alyafey22
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Functions Product
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the properties of products of discontinuous functions, specifically seeking examples of functions \(h(x) = f(x)g(x)\) that are continuous at a point \(c\) where both \(f\) and \(g\) are discontinuous. The scope includes theoretical exploration and examples of discontinuous functions in real analysis.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant presents a pair of functions \(f\) and \(g\) defined on the rationals and irrationals, showing that their product \(h(x) = 0\) is continuous everywhere.
  • Another participant suggests a general form for \(f\) and \(g\) that involves piecewise definitions based on a point \(c\), where the values switch between two constants \(a\) and \(b\).
  • A different participant proposes a construction where \(f\) and \(g\) take on values \(a\) and \(b\) at \(c\) and elsewhere, emphasizing that their product is constant and thus continuous.
  • One participant introduces the concept of characteristic functions for a set \(A\) and its complement, noting that their product results in the zero function, which is continuous.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants present multiple examples and constructions, indicating a lack of consensus on a single approach. Various models and hypotheses are proposed, with no clear agreement on a definitive example or method.

Contextual Notes

Some examples rely on specific definitions and conditions that may not generalize. The continuity of the functions is dependent on the chosen domain and the specific values assigned to \(a\) and \(b\). The discussion highlights the complexity of continuity in relation to the definitions of the functions involved.

alyafey22
Gold Member
MHB
Messages
1,556
Reaction score
2
Let $$f:\mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}$$ and $$g:\mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}$$ be discontinuous at a point $$c$$ . Give an example of a function $$h(x)=f(x)g(x)$$ such that $$h$$ is continuous at c.
$$
f(x) =
\begin{cases}
0 & \text{if } x \in \mathbb{Q} \\
1 & \text{if } x \in \mathbb{R}-\mathbb{Q}
\end{cases}$$

$$
g(x) =
\begin{cases}
1 & \text{if } x \in \mathbb{Q} \\
0 & \text{if } x \in \mathbb{R}-\mathbb{Q}
\end{cases}$$

$$f,g$$ are continuous nowhere but $$h(x)=0 \,\,\, \, \forall \,\, x \in \mathbb{R}$$.

What other examples you might think of ?
 
Physics news on Phys.org
ZaidAlyafey said:
Let $$f:\mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}$$ and $$g:\mathbb{R} \to \mathbb{R}$$ be discontinuous at a point $$c$$ . Give an example of a function $$h(x)=f(x)g(x)$$ such that $$h$$ is continuous at c.
$$
f(x) =
\begin{cases}
0 & \text{if } x \in \mathbb{Q} \\
1 & \text{if } x \in \mathbb{R}-\mathbb{Q}
\end{cases}$$

$$
g(x) =
\begin{cases}
1 & \text{if } x \in \mathbb{Q} \\
0 & \text{if } x \in \mathbb{R}-\mathbb{Q}
\end{cases}$$

$$f,g$$ are continuous nowhere but $$h(x)=0 \,\,\, \, \forall \,\, x \in \mathbb{R}$$.

What other examples you might think of ?

Hi Zaid, :)

How about the set for functions, \(\{f,\,g\}\) such that,

\[f(x)=\begin{cases}a & \text{if } x \geq c \\b & \text{if } x < c\end{cases}\]

\[g(x)=\begin{cases}b & \text{if } x \geq c \\a & \text{if } x < c\end{cases}\]

where \(a,\,b,\,c\in \Re\) and \(a\neq b\).
 
The most general, and all-encompassing example I can think of, off the top of my head:

Let $a \neq b$ and define:

$f(x) = a,\ x \neq c$
$f(c) = b$

$g(x) = b,\ x \neq c$
$g(c) = a$

Clearly, neither $f$ nor $g$ is continuous at $c$, as can be proved straight from the definition (use an $0 < \epsilon < |b - a|$).

Just as clearly:

$fg(x) = ab,\ \forall x \in \Bbb R$, which is clearly continuous.

One can construct more "extravagant" examples, but the important part is that $a \neq b$, and that $f$ and $g$ "complement" each other. In fact, there is nothing special about the partition of $\Bbb R$ into the two disjoint sets $\{c\}$ and $\Bbb R - \{c\}$, you can use any partition (such as the Dedekind cut example Sudharaka gives, or the partition into the rationals and irrationals).

To me, this underscores the fact that continuity (of a function) is dependent on the DOMAIN OF DEFINITION of said function, not just the "rule itself" of said function.

In other words, a "continuous function" doesn't really MEAN anything, what IS meaningful is: a function continuous at all points of a set $A$. The underlying domain is important. Context is everything: a function that is perfectly continuous on the real numbers may suddenly spectacularly fail to be so on the complex numbers, for example (as is the case with:

$f(x) = \dfrac{1}{1 + x^2}$).
 
Characteristic function of A
\chi_A : \mathbb{R} \rightarrow \{0,1\}
\chi_A =\left\{ \begin{array}{lr} 1 &amp;,x\in A \\ 0 &amp;,x\in A^{c} \end{array} \right.
\chi_{A^{c}} = \left\{ \begin{array}{ir} 0 &amp; , x\in A \\ 1 &amp; , x\in A^{c} \end{array} \right.
Their product is zero function which is continuous
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
3K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K