Proof of 1/(x^2) Not Having Limit at 0

  • Context: Undergrad 
  • Thread starter Thread starter vibha_ganji
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Limit Proof
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof in Apostol’s Calculus that the function 1/(x^2) does not have a limit as x approaches 0. Participants are examining the reasoning behind the proof, particularly how it generalizes to all neighborhoods of 0 and the implications of the epsilon-delta definition of limits.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants express confusion about how the proof concludes that every neighborhood N(0) contains points x > 0 for which f(x) is outside N1(A).
  • Others argue that the proof is correct, suggesting that for any A, there exists no value f(x) in N1(A), thus indicating that the limit does not exist.
  • A later reply emphasizes the importance of understanding the epsilon-delta definition, stating that it suffices to show that for every neighborhood N(0), there exists at least one point x such that |f(x) - A| > 1.
  • One participant points out that the right-hand limit approaches +∞, suggesting that a general theorem could be established regarding limits not being both finite and infinite.
  • Another participant clarifies that the intersection of N(0) and (0, 1/(A + 2)) is non-empty, reinforcing the argument that points exist in every neighborhood that do not map into N1(A).
  • Some participants reiterate that to prove the limit A does not exist, it is sufficient to provide a counterexample showing that terms near 0 map outside of any 1-neighborhood of a proposed limit A.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus, as there are multiple competing views regarding the proof's validity and the interpretation of the epsilon-delta definition. Some agree with the proof's conclusions, while others question the reasoning and generalization involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the need for clarity regarding the epsilon-delta definition and the implications of the proof, indicating that certain assumptions and definitions may not be fully articulated in the discussion.

vibha_ganji
Messages
19
Reaction score
6
In Apostol’s Calculus (Pg. 130) they are proving that 1/(x^2) does not have a limit at 0. In the proof, I am unable to understand how they conclude from the fact that the value of f(x) when 0 < x < 1/(A+2) is greater than (A+2)^2 which is greater than A+2 that every neighborhood N(0) contains points
x > 0 for which f(x) is outside N1(A). I don’t get how they generalized the specific statement to all neighborhood of N(0). Thank you!

E5E3BEDE-EFD2-4808-80A2-72A27DA9A844.jpeg
 
Physics news on Phys.org
The proof is correct. Draw a picture:

1631227954378.png


There is no value ##f(x)## in ##N_1(A)## and you can do this for any ##A##, so ##\lim_{x \to 0^+}f(x) \neq A##. ##A=0## is also impossible, since ##0## isn't a limit point.
 
This is a subtle point and requires to have perfect understanding of the exist and for all quantifiers in the epsilon-delta definition of the limit. More specifically if one wants to prove that A is NOT a limit as x->0 then he has to prove that
$$\exists \epsilon>0 : \forall \delta>0 ,\exists x:0<|x-0|<\delta\Rightarrow |f(x)-A|>\epsilon$$

The epsilon is ##\epsilon=1## and the delta is any positive number because for any such delta there exists ##x<min(\delta,\frac{1}{A+2})## for which ##0<|x-0|<\delta## and ##|f(x)-A|>\epsilon=1##. We can choose any ##x<min(\delta,\frac{1}{A+2})## but for the proof we require to exist at least one such x (for every different delta).

So we don't actually have to prove that all the points of every neighborhood ##N(0)## are such that ##|f(x)-A)|>1##, but just that for every neighborhood## N(0)## there exists at least one point ##x ## such that ##|f(x)-A|>1##.
 
Last edited:
vibha_ganji said:
In Apostol’s Calculus (Pg. 130) they are proving that 1/(x^2) does not have a limit at 0. In the proof, I am unable to understand how they conclude from the fact that the value of f(x) when 0 < x < 1/(A+2) is greater than (A+2)^2 which is greater than A+2 that every neighborhood N(0) contains points
x > 0 for which f(x) is outside N1(A). I don’t get how they generalized the specific statement to all neighborhood of N(0). Thank you!

View attachment 288821
This seems like a slightly odd argument to me. The right-hand limit is clearly ##+\infty##, which can be proved quite easily. Then, you must have a general theorem that a limit cannot be both a finite number ##A## and ##+\infty##. That can be done once for all cases.

For the same effort, you could have a theorem rather than a statement about a single function at a single point.
 
vibha_ganji said:
In Apostol’s Calculus (Pg. 130) they are proving that 1/(x^2) does not have a limit at 0. In the proof, I am unable to understand how they conclude from the fact that the value of f(x) when 0 < x < 1/(A+2) is greater than (A+2)^2 which is greater than A+2 that every neighborhood N(0) contains points
x > 0 for which f(x) is outside N1(A). I don’t get how they generalized the specific statement to all neighborhood of N(0). Thank you!

View attachment 288821

The intersection of N(0) and (0, 1/(A + 2)) is (0, x_0) where x_0 = \min\{ \sup N(0), 1/(A + 2)\} &gt; 0 since both \sup N(0) and 1/(A + 2) are strictly positive. This intersection is never empty.
 
Last edited:
vibha_ganji said:
In Apostol’s Calculus (Pg. 130) they are proving that 1/(x^2) does not have a limit at 0. In the proof, I am unable to understand how they conclude from the fact that the value of f(x) when 0 < x < 1/(A+2) is greater than (A+2)^2 which is greater than A+2 that every neighborhood N(0) contains points
x > 0 for which f(x) is outside N1(A). I don’t get how they generalized the specific statement to all neighborhood of N(0). Thank you!

View attachment 288821
Because , as Delta2 suggested, to prove the limit A does not exist, you only need to provide one counterexample: A neighborhood of 0 here that does not map into an ##\epsilon##-neighborhood of the limit, for some value of ##\epsilon##. This is what was provided: a proof for ##\epsilon##=1: terms near 0 will map outside of any 1-neighborhood of any putative limit A.

In other words: we showed that for a neighborhood of a potential limit A there is no x-axis neighborhood neighborhood mappi ng into it. Any such x-axis 'hood will map outside of the neighborhood (A-1,A+1).
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
3K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 14 ·
Replies
14
Views
2K
  • · Replies 4 ·
Replies
4
Views
2K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • · Replies 5 ·
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
2K