Proof of a commutator algebra exp(A)exp(B)=exp(B)exp(A)exp([A,B])

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proof of the formula \( e^A e^B = e^B e^A e^{[A,B]} \), exploring various methods and approaches to establish its validity. Participants engage in both theoretical reasoning and practical examples, examining the implications of the commutator in the context of matrix exponentiation.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant suggests expanding the left-hand side (LHS) and moving all \( B \)'s to the left of all \( A \)'s, noting the complexity of this approach.
  • Another participant hints at a simpler method by addressing terms one at a time, suggesting a focus on the expression \( A e^B \).
  • A participant claims to prove the identity using the relation \( [A,e^B] = [A,B]e^B \), under the assumption that \( [A,B] \) is a c-number.
  • Matrix examples are provided to illustrate the commutation relations, leading to a calculation of the commutator \( [A,B] \) and the exponentials \( e^A \), \( e^B \), and \( e^{[A,B]} \).
  • One participant questions the correctness of the formula based on their matrix calculations, suggesting that additional assumptions may be necessary for the formula to hold.
  • Another participant recalls a memory suggesting that the assumptions \( [A,[A,B]] = 0 \) and \( [B,[A,B]] = 0 \) might be relevant to the formula's validity.
  • Further elaboration on the derivation process is shared, indicating that the formula can be established through a series of expansions involving the commutator.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the formula, with some providing examples that challenge its correctness. There is no consensus on the assumptions required for the formula to hold, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the conditions under which the formula is applicable.

Contextual Notes

Participants note that the formula may depend on specific assumptions about the commutators involved, particularly regarding whether \( [A,B] \) is a c-number and the implications of higher-order commutators.

ismaili
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I want to prove this formula
[tex]e^Ae^B = e^Be^Ae^{[A,B]}[/tex]
The only method I can come up with is expand the LHS, and try to move all the B's to the left of all the A's, but it is so complicated in this way. i.e.
[tex]e^Ae^B=\frac{A^n}{n!}\frac{B^m}{m!} = \frac{1}{n!m!}\Big(A^{n-1}BAB^{m-1} + A^{n-1}[A,B]B^{m-1} \Big)= \cdots[/tex]
Is there any good way of proof of this formula?
thanks in advance
 
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ismaili said:
I want to prove this formula
[tex]e^Ae^B = e^Be^Ae^{[A,B]}[/tex]
The only method I can come up with is expand the LHS, and try to move all the B's to the left of all the A's, but it is so complicated in this way.

Hi ismaili! :smile:

Yes … too complicated! … :biggrin:

so don't try to handle them all at once …

pick 'em off one at a time! :wink:

Hint: AeB = … ? :smile:
 
tiny-tim said:
Hi ismaili! :smile:

Yes … too complicated! … :biggrin:

so don't try to handle them all at once …

pick 'em off one at a time! :wink:

Hint: AeB = … ? :smile:

Hi
Thanks!
By using [tex][A,e^B] = [A,B]e^B[/tex] where I forgot to say that [tex][A,B] = \text{c-number}[/tex] here, I can prove the identity right now.
Just back from the swimming pool, I will post my derivation later.

Cheers
 
If we set

[tex] A=\left(\begin{array}{cc} 0 & 1 \\ 0 & 0 \\ \end{array}\right),\quad\quad<br /> B=\left(\begin{array}{cc} 0 & 0 \\ 1 & 0 \\ \end{array}\right)[/tex]

Then we get

[tex] [A,B] = \left(\begin{array}{cc} 1 & 0 \\ 0 & -1 \\ \end{array}\right)[/tex]

and

[tex] e^A = \left(\begin{array}{cc} 1 & 1 \\ 0 & 1 \\ \end{array}\right ),\quad\quad<br /> e^B = \left(\begin{array}{cc} 1 & 0 \\ 1 & 1 \\ \end{array}\right),\quad\quad<br /> e^{[A,B]} = \left(\begin{array}{cc} e & 0 \\ 0 & e^{-1} \\ \end{array}\right)[/tex]

[tex] e^A e^B = \left(\begin{array}{cc} 2 & 1 \\ 1 & 1 \\ \end{array}\right)[/tex]

[tex] e^B e^A = \left(\begin{array}{cc} 1 & 1 \\ 1 & 2 \\ \end{array}\right)[/tex]

[tex] \left(\begin{array}{cc} 1 & 1 \\ 1 & 2 \\ \end{array}\right)\left(\begin{array}{cc} e & 0 \\ 0 & e^{-1} \\ \end{array}\right) = \left(\begin{array}{cc} e & e^{-1} \\ e & 2e^{-1} \\ \end{array}\right)[/tex]

So that formula doesn't seem to be correct. Where have you found it?
 
I just recalled a distant memory... according to which we are supposed to assume [A,[A,B]] = 0 = [B,[A,B]] with this formula? Could this be the case? Anyway, if you don't find mistake in my example, we will need to assume something for sure.
 
jostpuur said:
If we set

[tex] A=\left(\begin{array}{cc} 0 & 1 \\ 0 & 0 \\ \end{array}\right),\quad\quad<br /> B=\left(\begin{array}{cc} 0 & 0 \\ 1 & 0 \\ \end{array}\right)[/tex]

Then we get

[tex] [A,B] = \left(\begin{array}{cc} 1 & 0 \\ 0 & -1 \\ \end{array}\right)[/tex]


Where have you found it?

Sorry that I forgot to say that formula holds when [tex][A,B][/tex] is a c-number.
I met this formula in Green and Witten's string theory book.
One of the derivation which I just found and benefit from Tim's hint is as follows.
We first calculate [tex][A,e^B] = [A,B]e^B[/tex].
Then, we found
[tex]A^ie^B = e^BA^i + ie^BA^{i-1}[A,B] + C^i_2e^BA^{i-2}[A,B]^2 + \cdots[/tex]
Hence, we can see that
[tex]e^Ae^B = e^Be^Ae^{[A,B]}[/tex]
 
I see. Actually you mentioned that in the next post, but I wasn't reading anything else than the first post carefully.
 

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