Proof of the expansion of the universe-cosmological redshift?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the proofs of the expansion of the universe, particularly focusing on the cosmological redshift and its implications. Participants explore the historical context of these proofs and delve into the relationship between Einstein's equations and gravitational attraction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant inquires about the proofs of the universe's expansion and whether the cosmological redshift serves as evidence for this phenomenon.
  • Another participant cites Hubble's law as a significant early piece of evidence supporting the expansion and confirms that redshift is a principle supporting this idea.
  • A participant discusses how to derive Newton's law of gravity from Einstein's field equations, mentioning the weak field limit and its relation to Poisson's equation.
  • There is a question regarding the correct terminology between Poisson and Poincaré in the context of gravitational equations.
  • One participant suggests a resource by John Baez for an intuitive explanation of Einstein's equations, indicating that it may be helpful for understanding the concepts discussed.
  • Participants express feelings of confusion or inadequacy in understanding the material, with some humorously referring to themselves as the "village idiot."

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

The discussion reflects a mix of agreement on the significance of redshift and Hubble's law as evidence for expansion, while there is some confusion regarding the terminology and the mathematical details of gravitational attraction in Einstein's equations. No consensus is reached on the best approach to explaining these concepts.

Contextual Notes

Participants express uncertainty about specific mathematical terms and their implications, indicating that further clarification may be needed. The discussion also highlights varying levels of familiarity with the subject matter among participants.

tunafish
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Hi everybody! I'm going to make this quick, so i won't waste your time!
SO:
What are the proofs of the expansion of the universe??
And what were the firsts?
Is the cosmological redshift a proof of that?

A little more complicated one:

From where, in the einstein equations, should i see that tere is the gravitational attraction which pushes thing togheter?


Thanks a lot friends!
 
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tunafish said:
A little more complicated one:

From where, in the einstein equations, should i see that tere is the gravitational attraction which pushes thing togheter?
You're essentially asking how to recover Newton's law of gravity from the Einstein field equations of general relativity. You can make contact with Newtonian gravity in the so-called "weak field limit", in which the gravitational metric is taken to be static and to be "close" to the Minkowski metric of flat space. In this approximation, the Einstein equations reduce to a Poisson's equation involving the gravitational potential -- the potential being treated as a perturbation. Newton's law of gravitational attraction follows from Poisson's equation. I can certainly add more mathematical detail if you're interested...
 
I'm confused, did you mean Poisson or Poincaire?
 
tunafish said:
A little more complicated one:

From where, in the einstein equations, should i see that tere is the gravitational attraction which pushes thing togheter?

Brian Powell already answered this but I will throw in a URL just in case you like the approach. John Baez has an intuitive explanation of the Einstein Field Equation. It is described in terms of what happens to a cloud of coffee grounds, as I recall.
The title is something like "The meaning of Einstein's equation".
It's pretty elementary. He's a good explainer. You can usually trust him to find a simple way to explain something if there is a way.

You can get it if you google "Baez meaning einstein"
so you don't really need the link but here it is:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/einstein/

It might be wise to get Brian's explanation though. Might have a neat one.
 
Last edited:
Chronos said:
I'm confused, did you mean Poisson or Poincaire?
No -- Poisson. For gravitational potential, \phi, and energy density, \rho, one has Poisson's equation:
\nabla^2\phi = 4\pi G \rho
 
Sometimes I feel like the village idiot.
 
Chronos said:
Sometimes I feel like the village idiot.
If you don't ever feel like the village idiot, then you're doing something wrong.
 
I feel safe on that count.
 

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