MHB Properties of Ackermann's function

AI Thread Summary
The discussion focuses on proving various properties of Ackermann's function, including inequalities and relationships between its parameters. Key properties discussed include that Ackermann's function is strictly increasing in both arguments and that it exceeds both its second argument and the first argument. The proofs involve mathematical induction on the parameters, demonstrating that if one parameter increases, the function's output also increases accordingly. The participants seek clarification on specific proofs and the correct application of induction for certain properties. Overall, the conversation emphasizes the rigorous nature of proving properties related to Ackermann's function.
mathmari
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Hey! :o

I want to show the following properties of Ackermann's function:

  1. $A(x,y)>y$.
  2. $A(x,y+1)>A(x,y)$.
  3. If $y_2>y_1$, then $A(x,y_2)>A(x,y_1)$.
  4. $A(x+1, y) \geq A(x,y+1)$.
  5. $A(x,y)>x$.
  6. If $x_2>x_1$, then $A(x_2, y)>A(x_1, y)$.
  7. $A(x+2, y)>A(x,2y)$.
I have done the following:

  1. Induction on $x$.
  2. Induction on $x$.
    Base case: For $x=0$ we have $A(0,y+1)=y+2>y+1=A(0,y)$, by the definition of $A$.

    Inductive hypothesis: We assume that it holds for $x=n$, that means $A(n,y+1)>A(n,y)$ (I.H.x)

    Inductive step: We want to show that $A(n+1, y+1)>A(n+1,y)$.
    By the definition of $A$ and by the property $1$ we have $A(n+1, y+1)=A(n,A(n+1, y))>A(n+1,y)$.

  3. Induction on $y$.
    Base case: For $y=0$ we have $A(x+1, 0)=A(x,1)=A(x,0+1)$.

    Inductive hypothesis: We assume that it holds for $y=m$, that means $A(x+1, m) \geq A(x,m+1)$ (I.H.)

    Inductive step: We want to show that $A(x+1, m+1) \geq A(x,m+2)$.
    By the definition we have $A(x+1, m+1)=A(x,A(x+1, m))$. By the (I.H.) and the property $1$ we have $A(x+1, m) \geq A(x,m+1)>m+1 \Rightarrow A(x+1, m) \geq A(x,m+1) \geq m+2$. By the property $3$ we have $A(x,A(x+1,m)) \geq A(x,m+2)$. So, we cocnlude that $A(x+1, m+1) \geq A(x,m+2)$.
  4. By the property $4$ we have $A(x+1, y) \geq A(x,y+1)$. So, we have $A(x,y) \geq A(x-1, y+1) \geq A(x-2, y+2) \geq \dots \geq A(0,x+y)=x+y+1>x$.
    But how can we prove this formally??

  5. Induction on $y$.
    Base case: For $y=0$ we have by the property $6$ $A(x+2, 0)>A(x,0)=A(x,2 \cdot 0)$.

    Inductive hypothesis: We assume that it holds for $y=m$, that means $A(x+2, m)>A(x,2m)$ (I.H.)

    Inductive step: We want to show that $A(x+2, m+1) > A(x,2(m+1))$.
    By the definition of $A$ we have $A(x+2, m+1)=A(x+1, A(x+2, m))$. By the (I.H.) we have $A(x+2, m)>A(x,2m)$. By the property $3$ we have $A(x+2, m+1)>A(x+1, A(x,2m))$. By the property $4$ we have $A(x+1, A(x,2m)) \geq A(x,A(x,2m)+1)$ According to the property $1$, $A(x,2m)>2m \Rightarrow A(x,2m) \geq 2m+1$ or equivalently $A(x,2m)+1 \geq 2m+2=2(m+1)$. By the property $3$ we have $A(x,A(x,2m)+1) \geq A(x,2(m+1))$. So, $A(x+2, m+1)>A(x,2(m+1))$.

Is this correct?? Could I improve something?? (Wondering)

Could you give me some hints to prove the properties $3, 6$ ?? (Wondering)
 
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At the proof of the properties $3$ and $6$ do we use the properties $2$ and $4$ respectively?

But how? (Wondering)

For example, for the property $3$ would the proof be as follows?

Induction on $x$.

Base case: For $x=0$ we have $A(0,y_2)=y_2+1>y_1+1=A(0,y_1)$

Inductive hypothesis: We assume that it holds for $x=n$, that means $A(n,y_2)>A(n,y_1)$ (I.H)

Inductive step: We want to show that $A(n+1,y_2)>A(n+1,y_1)$.

How can we continue?
 
I tried again to prove the property $3$:

$y_2>y_1 \Rightarrow y_2=y_1+d, d>0 \Rightarrow d=y_2-y_1>0$

Induction on $d$.

Base case: For $d=1$ we have $A(x, y_2)=A(x, y_1+1) \overset{(2)}{>}A(x, y_1)$.

Inductive hypothesis: We assume that it holds for $d=k$, that means that $A(x, y_2)=A(x, y_1+k)>A(x, y_1)$ (I.H.)

Inductive step: We want to show that $A(x, y_1+(k+1))>A(x, y_1)$
$A(x, y_1+k+1)=A(x, (y_1+k)+1)\overset{(2)}{>}A(x, y_1+k)\overset{ (I.H.) }{>}A(x, y_1)$ Is this correct? Could I improve something? (Wondering)

The proof of the property $6$ is similiar, isn't it?

On which variable do we use the induction for the property $5$ ?
 
For the property $5$ do we do the following?

We will show that $$A(x, y) \geq A(0, x+y)$$ by induction on $k=x+y$. Base case: For $k=0$ we have $x=y=0$, so $A(0, 0) \geq A(0, 0)$.

Inductive hypothesis: We assume that it stands for $k=n$, $A(x, y) \geq A(0, n)$. (I.H.)

Inductive step: We will show that it stands for $k=n+1$, $x+1+y=n+1$, that means that $A(x+1, y) \geq A(0, n+1)=(n+1)+1=n+2$.
We have that $A(x+1, y) >A(x, y) \overset{ (I.H.) }{\geq} A(0, n)=n+1$.
$A(x+1, y)>n+1 \Rightarrow A(x+1, y) \geq n+2$. So, we have that $A(x, y) \geq A(0, x+y)=x+y+1>x+y$. Is this correct?
 
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