Prove ##a + b = b + a## using Peano postulates

  • Thread starter Thread starter issacnewton
  • Start date Start date
  • Tags Tags
    Peano
Click For Summary

Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the commutative property of addition, specifically that \( a + b = b + a \), using Peano postulates. The original poster outlines their approach based on the properties of natural numbers and the definition of addition as presented in a specific textbook.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Conceptual clarification, Mathematical reasoning

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • The original poster attempts to establish the commutative law by defining a set \( G \) and proving that if \( r \in G \), then \( s(r) \in G \) as well. They reference previous proofs of the associative law and the behavior of addition with respect to the Peano axioms.

Discussion Status

Participants are providing feedback on the clarity and rigor of the original proof. Some suggest that the original poster should be more precise in their reasoning and explicitly show how certain equalities follow from established properties. There is no explicit consensus on the soundness of the proof, but constructive suggestions for improvement are being made.

Contextual Notes

Participants are discussing the need for clarity in mathematical proofs, particularly in how properties like associativity and the definition of the successor function are applied. The original poster is encouraged to refine their argumentation style to enhance understanding.

issacnewton
Messages
1,035
Reaction score
37
Homework Statement
Prove ##a + b = b + a## using Peano postulates
Relevant Equations
Peano postulates
Following is a set of Peano postulates I am using as defined in the book "Th real numbers and real analysis" by Ethan Bloch.

There exists a set ##\mathbb{N}## with an element ##1 \in \mathbb{N}## and a function ##s: \mathbb{N} \rightarrow \mathbb{N} ## that satisfy the following three properties.

1) There is no ##n \in \mathbb{N}## such that ##s(n) = 1##

2) The function ##s## is injective.

3) Let ##G \subseteq \mathbb{N}## be a set. Suppose that ##1 \in G##, and that if ##g \in G## then ##s(g) \in G##. Then ## G = \mathbb{N} ##I have to prove the Commutative Law for addition ## a + b = b + a## using Peano postulates, given that ##a, b\in \mathbb{N}##. Now define the set

$$ G = \{ x \in \mathbb{N} |\forall\; y \in \mathbb{N} \quad (x + y) = (y + x) \} $$

I have proven previously, that for ## a \in \mathbb{N}##, we have,

$$ 1 + a = s(a) = a + 1 \cdots\cdots (1) $$

So, for some ##y \in \mathbb{N} ##, we get ## 1 + y = y + 1 ##. That proves that ## 1 \in G ##. Now, suppose that ## r \in G##. This means that

$$ \forall\; y \in \mathbb{N} \quad (r + y) = (y + r) \cdots\cdots (2) $$

We need to prove that

$$ \forall\; y \in \mathbb{N} \quad s(r) + y = y + s(r) $$

Let ## y \in \mathbb{N} ## be arbitrary. From ##(2)##, we get ## (r + y) = (y + r)##. It follows that ##s(r + y) = s(y + r) ##. Now, addition function is defined as follows in this book

There is a unique binary operation ##+: \mathbb{N} \times \mathbb{N} \to \mathbb{N} ## that satisfies the following two properties for all ##n, m \in \mathbb{N} ##

$$ n + 1 = s(n) $$
$$ n + s(m) = s(n + m) $$

Using this, we get, ## s(r + y) = y + s(r)##. Now, using ##(1)##, we have, ## 1 + (r + y) = y + s(r) ##. I have also previously proven Associative Law for Addition. So, using that, we get, ## (1 + r) + y = y + s(r) ##. Again using ##(1)##, this becomes ## s(r) + y = y + s(r) ##. Since ## y \in \mathbb{N} ## is arbitrary, ## s(r) \in G##. So, for some ## r \in G## it implies that ## s(r) \in G##. From Peano postulates, this means that ## G = \mathbb{N} ##.

Now let ##a, b \in \mathbb{N}## be arbitrary. So, ## a \in G##. It follows that ## (a + b) = (b + a) ##

Is this a sound proof ?
Thanks
 
Physics news on Phys.org
issacnewton said:
So, for some ##y \in \mathbb{N} ##, we get ## 1 + y = y + 1 ##. That proves that ## 1 \in G ##.
Be more precise. The equality ##1+y=y+1## must hold for all ##y\in\mathbb N##, then it follows that ##1\in G##. You can show the identity holds by induction using ##s(1+n) = 1+s(n)##.
issacnewton said:
Using this, we get, ## s(r + y) = y + s(r)##. Now, using ##(1)##, we have, ## 1 + (r + y) = y + s(r) ##. I have also previously proven Associative Law for Addition.
Show explicitly how ##1+(r+y) = y+s(r)## follows from associativity. Otherwise, you make a remark about associativity and it's up to the reader to realise that's how you concluded that equality. Leave that ambiguous style to math authors, you have the luxury of writing things out in detail.
issacnewton said:
Since ## y \in \mathbb{N} ## is arbitrary, ## s(r) \in G##. So, for some ## r \in G## it implies that ## s(r) \in G##.
You have already fixed ##r\in G##, there is no need to requantify it. It's confusing the reader.One might condense the induction argument as follows, label the equalities and explain them separately. Keep things concise. It holds that ##1\in G##. Let ##r\in G## and ##y\in\mathbb N##. We have that
<br /> s(r)+y \overset{1.}= (1+r)+y \overset{2.}= 1+(r+y) \overset{3.}= (r+y)+1 \overset{4.}= (y+r)+1 \overset{5.}= y + s(r).<br />
  1. Definition of ##s(n)##
  2. Associativity of ##+##
  3. ##1\in G##
  4. Induction assumption
  5. Associativity of ##+## and definition of ##s(n)##
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Likes   Reactions: PeroK
issacnewton said:
Is this a sound proof ?
Thanks
I agree with @nuuskur. This isn't as good as your previous proof of the associativity of ##+##. You should try to be more positive and direct.
 
Thanks nuuskur. I will modify the proof.
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 3 ·
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
2K
Replies
3
Views
2K
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
2
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • · Replies 1 ·
Replies
1
Views
2K
Replies
20
Views
4K
  • · Replies 11 ·
Replies
11
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
2K