Prove N_{G}(H) is a Subgroup of G

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving that the normalizer of a subgroup \( H \) in a group \( G \), denoted \( N_{G}(H) \), is itself a subgroup of \( G \). The focus is on the mathematical reasoning and properties related to group elements and their inverses within the context of subgroup definitions.

Discussion Character

  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant defines \( N_{G}(H) \) and asserts the need to show that \( N_{G}(H) \) is a subgroup of \( G \).
  • Another participant suggests that since \( H \) is a subgroup, it contains inverses, and proposes considering the element \( g^{-1}x^{-1}g \) to demonstrate that it belongs to \( N_{G}(H) \).
  • A participant questions the notation used and asks for clarification on the product of elements in \( N_{G}(H) \).
  • There is a repeated assertion that the product \( (g^{-1}xg)(g^{-1}x^{-1}g) \) equals the identity, leading to further inquiries about its implications.
  • Another participant expresses confusion about whether they are trying to prove that \( g^{-1} \) is in \( N_{G}(H) \) or \( x^{-1} \) is in \( N_{G}(H) \).
  • One participant clarifies that the goal is to show \( x^{-1} \) is in \( N_{G}(H) \) by demonstrating that \( g^{-1}x^{-1}g \) is in \( H \).
  • A participant expresses confusion about the requirement to show that for any \( g \) in \( N_{G}(H) \), \( g^{-1} \) must also be in \( N_{G}(H) \).

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the steps required to prove that \( N_{G}(H) \) is a subgroup. There are multiple interpretations of the requirements and the implications of the definitions involved.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the notation and the implications of certain products of elements in the context of subgroup properties. The discussion reflects uncertainty about the logical steps needed to complete the proof.

titaniumx3
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Let G be a group and H a subgroup of G. We define the following:

[tex]N_{G}(H) = \{g \in G \,\,|\,\, g^{-1}hg \in H,\, for\, all\,\, h\in H\}[/tex]

Show that [tex]N_{G}(H)[/tex] is a subgroup of G.

_______________________

I've shown that for all [itex]x,\, y[/itex] of [itex]N_{G}(H)[/itex], [itex]xy[/itex] is an element of [itex]N_{G}(H)[/itex], but how do I show that [itex]x^{-1}[/itex] is an element of [itex]N_{G}(H)[/itex] ?
 
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H is a subgroup, hence H has inverses so for the element x in H, and the element g-1hg consider the element g-1x-1g which is in NG(H) since x-1 is in H.
 
I think d leet mean "and the element g-1xg".

What is the product (g-1xg)(g-1x-1g)?
 
It's the identity.

But, aren't we supposed to show that (g-1)-1x(g-1) = gxg-1 is in H?
 
titaniumx3 said:
It's the identity.

But, aren't we supposed to show that (g-1)-1x(g-1) = gxg-1 is in H?

yup that's right, think about what halls just said though and it answers your question, you know (g^-1xg)(g^-1x^-1g) = e. This tells you what?
 
ircdan said:
yup that's right, think about what halls just said though and it answers your question, you know (g^-1xg)(g^-1x^-1g) = e. This tells you what?

It tells me the inverse of g-1xg is g-1x-1g (which must also be contained in H), but how does that show that g-1 is in NG(H)? (i.e. do all elements of NG(H) have inverses?).
 
?? Was that a typo. You are not trying to prove that g-1 is in NG(H), you are trying to prove x-1 is.

And the fact that g-1x-1g is in H shows that x-1 is in NG(H).
 
Now I'm getting confused lol. According to the definition of NG(H) from my original post, we want to show that for all g in NG(H), g-1 is also in NG(H). In other words we have to show that for any g in NG(H) and all x in H, (g-1)-1x(g-1) is H.

Am I correct in saying this?
 

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