Prove that S lies on the line AB

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around a geometric proof involving a rhombus and the positioning of points related to tangents and angles. Participants explore the conditions under which point S lies on line AB, with a focus on the relationships between angles and tangents in the context of triangle PSR and its circumcircle.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants describe the configuration of rhombus PQRS and the angles involved, particularly noting that $\angle Q=60^{\circ}$ and $\angle PMR=120^{\circ}$.
  • One participant questions the reasoning behind the implication that angles $\angle PSA=60^{\circ}$ and $\angle RSB=60^{\circ}$ based on the tangents to the circumcircle of triangle PSR.
  • Another participant references a theorem stating that the angle between a tangent and a chord is equal to the angle subtended by the chord, applying this to argue that angle $ASP$ is also 60 degrees.
  • There is a suggestion that if line AB is already known to be tangent at S, then S must lie on AB, which raises a point of contention regarding the necessity of proof.
  • Participants discuss the role of point M as the circumcenter of triangle PSR and how this relates to the tangents drawn from points Q and R.
  • One participant proposes drawing a tangent from S to illustrate the angle relationships and suggests proving that the intersection points are the same.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing levels of understanding regarding the implications of the tangents and angles involved. While some agree on the geometric relationships, others remain uncertain about the reasoning and the necessity of proving that S lies on line AB.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved questions regarding the assumptions about the angles and the relationships between the tangents and the circumcircle, as well as the clarity of the proof structure.

anemone
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Let $PQRS$ be a rhombus with $\angle Q=60^{\circ}$. $M$ is a point inside triangle $PSR$ such that $\angle PMR=120^{\circ}$. Let lines $QP$ and $RM$ intersect at $A$ and lines $QR$ and $PM$ intersect at $B$. Prove that $S$ lies on the line $AB$.
 
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anemone said:
Let $PQRS$ be a rhombus with $\angle Q=60^{\circ}$. $M$ is a point inside triangle $PSR$ such that $\angle PMR=120^{\circ}$. Let lines $QP$ and $RM$ intersect at $A$ and lines $QR$ and $PM$ intersect at $B$. Prove that $S$ lies on the line $AB$.

Since $PQRS$ is a rhombus, we have $\angle PQR=\angle PSR=60^{\circ}$.

It can be easily seen that $M$ is the circumcentre of $\Delta PSR$ and $\Delta PSR$ is an equilateral triangle.

Also, $QPA$ and $QRB$ are tangents to the circumcircle of $\Delta PSR$.

Hence, $\angle PSA=60^{\circ}$ and $\angle RSB=60^{\circ}$.

The angles $\angle PSA,\angle PSR$ and $\angle RSB$ sum to $180^{\circ}$, hence $S$ lies on$AB$.
 
Pranav said:
Since $PQRS$ is a rhombus, we have $\angle PQR=\angle PSR=60^{\circ}$.

It can be easily seen that $M$ is the circumcentre of $\Delta PSR$ and $\Delta PSR$ is an equilateral triangle.

Also, $QPA$ and $QRB$ are tangents to the circumcircle of $\Delta PSR$.

Hence, $\angle PSA=60^{\circ}$ and $\angle RSB=60^{\circ}$.

The angles $\angle PSA,\angle PSR$ and $\angle RSB$ sum to $180^{\circ}$, hence $S$ lies on$AB$.

Thanks for participating, Pranav!:)

But...I don't follow your reasoning because I don't understand why the equilateral triangle $PSR$ and that $QPA$ and $QRB$ are tangents to the circumcircle of $\Delta PSR$ imply $\angle PSA=60^{\circ}$ and $\angle RSB=60^{\circ}$.

I am definitely not saying your approach is wrong, it just that I don't get it, could you elaborate more on that, please? :o
 
Given the line ${AB}$ is tangent to the circle at $S$, there is a theorem that states:

The angle between a tangent (${AB}$) and a chord (${PS}$) is equal to an angle subtended by the chord ($\angle PRS$).

Since $\angle PRS$ is 60 degrees since it is part of an equilateral triangle, so is angle $ASP$. The argument for angle $BSR$ being 60 degrees is analogous.
 
magneto said:
Given the line ${AB}$ is tangent to the circle at $S$, there is a theorem that states:...

Thanks for replying, magneto but, as far as I can tell, if we know beforehand that $AB$ is a tangent to the circle at $S$, then S certainly lies on AB, and there is nothing to be proved...what do you think?(Smile)
 
anemone said:
I am definitely not saying your approach is wrong, it just that I don't get it, could you elaborate more on that, please? :o

Sure! :)

Do you agree that $M$ is the circumcentre of $PSR$? If so, it can be easily shown that the lines are tangent.

I hope that helps.
 
Pranav said:
Sure! :)

Do you agree that $M$ is the circumcentre of $PSR$? If so, it can be easily shown that the lines are tangent.

I hope that helps.

Yes, I can see QPA and QRB are tangent to the circle which has its center also a circumcenter of triangle PSR, I just don't understand why that implies the angles of ASP, RSB as 60 degree and hence ASB is a straight line. I admit that I don't see how this is obvious for me.(Tmi)
 
anemone said:
Yes, I can see QPA and QRB are tangent to the circle which has its center also a circumcenter of triangle PSR, I just don't understand why that implies the angles of ASP, RSB as 60 degree and hence ASB is a straight line. I admit that I don't see how this is obvious for me.(Tmi)

33kf6vc.png


(The diagram isn't too accurate, sorry about that. :o )

If we draw a tangent from S, it would form an acute angle $60^{\circ}$ with RS. Since the tangent at S and QRB forms the same angle with RS, they must intersect at the same point.

If you are not satisfied, I am not sure, you can assume that tangent at S intersect PM at B' and then prove BB'=0 or BM=B'M.

I hope it helps. :)
 
Hey Pranav, I see it now.:o Thanks for all the clarification posts and thank you for participating!
 

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