Prove the theorems using mathematical induction.

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Homework Help Overview

The problem involves proving a theorem using mathematical induction, specifically the statement that for all natural numbers n greater than or equal to 4, 2 is less than or equal to n!. Participants are exploring the validity of this statement through the process of induction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory, Mathematical reasoning, Assumption checking

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants discuss checking the base case for n=4 and the validity of the induction step from P(k) to P(k+1). There are attempts to establish the relationship between (k+1)^2 and k! and to prove that k+1 is less than or equal to k!. Some participants suggest reconsidering the approach to the induction step and question the assumptions made during the proof.

Discussion Status

The discussion is ongoing with various attempts to clarify the induction process. Some participants have provided guidance on how to approach the proof, while others are exploring different interpretations of the induction step. There is no explicit consensus yet, but the dialogue is productive.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working under the constraints of proving the theorem without providing complete solutions. There are indications of confusion regarding the steps in the induction process and the assumptions being made.

yy205001
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Homework Statement


Prove the theorems using mathematical induction.

[itex]\forall n[/itex] [itex]\in N[/itex], n[itex]\geq 4[/itex] [itex]\rightarrow[/itex]n2[itex]\leq n![/itex]

Thanks in advance!

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


First, check the base case which is n=4.
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]n=4[itex]\geq[/itex]4-True

[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]42[itex]\leq[/itex]4*3*2*1

[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]16[itex]\leq[/itex]24-True

Therefore, P(1) is true.

Now, check for the case n=k+1, to prove P(k)[itex]\rightarrow[/itex]P(k+1).
Assume P(k) is true.
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]k[itex]\geq[/itex]4
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]k2[itex]\leq[/itex]k!

[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]k+1[itex]\geq[/itex]4+1 -Add 1 on both side
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]k+1[itex]\geq[/itex]5
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex](k+1)2=k2+2k+1
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex](k+1)!=(k+1)k!
...

And I stop here can't get further to prove P(k+1) is true.
Any help is appreciated.
 
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yy205001 said:

Homework Statement


Prove the theorems using mathematical induction.

[itex]\forall n[/itex] [itex]\in N[/itex], n[itex]\geq 4[/itex] [itex]\rightarrow[/itex]n2[itex]\leq n![/itex]

Thanks in advance!

Homework Equations





The Attempt at a Solution


First, check the base case which is n=4.
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]n=4[itex]\geq[/itex]4-True

[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]42[itex]\leq[/itex]4*3*2*1

[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]16[itex]\leq[/itex]24-True

Therefore, P(1) is true.

Now, check for the case n=k+1, to prove P(k)[itex]\rightarrow[/itex]P(k+1).
Assume P(k) is true.
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]k[itex]\geq[/itex]4
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]k2[itex]\leq[/itex]k!

[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]k+1[itex]\geq[/itex]4+1 -Add 1 on both side
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]k+1[itex]\geq[/itex]5
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex](k+1)2=k2+2k+1
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex](k+1)!=(k+1)k!
Rather than multiply the square note that what you want to prove is that
[itex](k+1)^2= (k+1)(k+1)\le (k+1)k![/itex] which, because k+1 is positive, is
the same as proving that [itex]k+1\le k![/itex]. You might want to do another induction to prove that is true first.

...

And I stop here can't get further to prove P(k+1) is true.
Any help is appreciated.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Rather than multiply the square note that what you want to prove is that
[itex](k+1)^2= (k+1)(k+1)\le (k+1)k![/itex] which, because k+1 is positive, is
the same as proving that [itex]k+1\le k![/itex]. You might want to do another induction to prove that is true first.

Thanks HallsofIvy,
So I should start at proving (n+1)(n+1)≤(n+1)n! [itex]\Rightarrow[/itex] n+1≤n!
First, Check the base case n=4:
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex](4)+1≤4!
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]5≤24
So, the base case is true.

Now, Assume P(k) is true, then prove prove P(k+1):
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]k+1≤k! -is true (Premise)
Also, let n=k+1:
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]k+1+1≤(k+1)!
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex](k+1)+1≤(k+1)k!
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]1+1/(k+1)≤k! [Since k+1 is positive, so the inequality sign won't change]
Since 1+k≤k! is true and k>1/(k+1)
Therefore, P(k+1) is true
P(k)[itex]\rightarrow[/itex]P(k+1)
And prove [itex]\forall n[/itex][itex]\in N[/itex]n≥4[itex]\rightarrow[/itex]n2≤n!

Does this look alright??
 
yy205001 said:
Thanks HallsofIvy,
So I should start at proving (n+1)(n+1)≤(n+1)n! [itex]\Rightarrow[/itex] n+1≤n!
No, that follows trivially by dividing both sides by n+1. What I said was that you should show that, for all [itex]n\ge 4[/itex], [itex]n+1\le n![/itex] (which is, in fact, what you are doing).

First, Check the base case n=4:
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex](4)+1≤4!
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]5≤24
So, the base case is true.

Now, Assume P(k) is true, then prove prove P(k+1):
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]k+1≤k! -is true (Premise)
Also, let n=k+1:
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]k+1+1≤(k+1)!
You cannot assert this because you do not know if it is true yet. This is what you want to prove.

[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex](k+1)+1≤(k+1)k!
[itex]\Rightarrow[/itex]1+1/(k+1)≤k! [Since k+1 is positive, so the inequality sign won't change]
Since 1+k≤k! is true and k>1/(k+1)
Therefore, P(k+1) is true
Strictly speaking what you have done is prove "if P(k+1) is true then P(k) is true". Do it the other way around: if [itex]k+1\le k![/tex] then [itex](k+1)(k+1)\le k!(k+1)= (k+1)![/itex]<br /> <br /> <blockquote data-attributes="" data-quote="" data-source="" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-content"> <div class="bbCodeBlock-expandContent js-expandContent "> P(k)[itex]\rightarrow[/itex]P(k+1)<br /> And prove [itex]\forall n[/itex][itex]\in N[/itex]n≥4[itex]\rightarrow[/itex]n<sup>2</sup>≤n!<br /> <br /> Does this look alright?? </div> </div> </blockquote>[/itex]
 

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