Proving f(x) <= g(x): Choosing Epsilon

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the limit relationship between two functions, specifically that if \( f(x) \leq g(x) \), then \( \lim_{x \to a} f(x) \leq \lim_{x \to a} g(x) \). Participants explore the choice of epsilon in the context of this proof, particularly how to arrive at an appropriate epsilon value for the argument.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant describes proving the limit relationship by contradiction, assuming \( L > M \) and deriving a contradiction using epsilon.
  • Another participant suggests that the choice of epsilon is based on experience and may not have a straightforward reasoning process.
  • A participant expresses a desire for a more visual or intuitive understanding of how to choose epsilon, referencing a diagram to illustrate the limits.
  • There is a discussion about why choosing epsilon as \( |L-M| \) may not work, with a focus on the overlap of intervals and the implications for the limits of \( f(x) \) and \( g(x) \).
  • One participant agrees that the visualization of overlapping intervals is a suitable explanation for the choice of epsilon.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the importance of the choice of epsilon and the visualization of overlapping intervals, but there is no consensus on a definitive method for selecting epsilon beyond the examples provided.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the challenges in selecting epsilon and the reliance on visual intuition, but does not resolve the broader question of a systematic approach to choosing epsilon in limit proofs.

Buri
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The question is:

Suppose f(x) <= g(x). Prove that lim [x->a] f(x) <= lim[x->a] g(x).

I've been able to prove it by contradiction. I let lim [x->a] f(x) = L and lim[x->a] g(x) = M and I suppose that L > M. I then went on to choose epsilon = (L - M)/2 and a contradiction easily follows. But my problem is how do you arrive/choose this choice of epsilon? I just immediately thought of using this epsilon, but if I hadn't I don't know how/why I would have arrived at this epsilon. Can someone please help me out with this?

Thanks
 
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You chose this [itex]\varepsilon[/itex] because it worked for the problem. The mental processes leading to this choice are probably extremely difficult. Experience certainly plays a big part.
 
Not the answer I was hoping for. There is no way I could let's say draw a diagram and decide which epsilon would work and which one wouldn't?

For example, when you prove that f(x) can't approach two different limits I drew a diagram:

L________M

And I can "see" that epsilon = |L-M|/2 would make it impossible for both |f(x) - L| < epsilon and |f(x) - M| < epsilon

So I was hoping I could do something similar to understand my choice of epsilon.

Okay I'm going to try to explain this and I'd appreciate if you could tell me if this all makes sense.

I have:

M__________L

Why is it that I can't choose epsilon = |l-m|? Is it because then the intervals |f(x) - L| < |l-m| and |g(x) - M| < |l-m| overlap and hence I can't really tell whether g(x) < or > f(x)? However, when I do choose |l-m|/2 then |f(x) - L| < |l-m|/2 and |g(x) - M| < |l-m|/2 don't overlap anymore and so I will be guaranteed that g(x) < f(x) and hence a contradiction will follow somehow...

Do you see what I mean? I appreciate the help.
 
I think the explanation/visualization with the overlapping intervals is appropriate.
 
Thanks a lot for you help :)
 

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