Proving (n/2)^n > n > (n/3)^n for all n > 6

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the inequalities \(\left(\frac{n}{2}\right)^n > n! > \left(\frac{n}{3}\right)^n\) for all natural numbers \(n > 6\). Participants explore various methods of proof, including the potential use of Stirling's approximation and logarithmic transformations, while questioning the necessity of induction.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that the inequalities can be demonstrated using Stirling's formula, which approximates \(n!\).
  • One participant suggests that logarithmic transformations simplify the proof of the inequalities.
  • Another participant mentions that the lower bound \(n! > \left(\frac{n}{3}\right)^n\) can be derived from the Maclaurin series for \(e^x\).
  • There is a request for clarification on how to derive the approximation \(\ln(n!) \approx n(\ln(n) - 1)\) from Stirling's approximation.
  • Some participants express interest in alternative methods or proofs that do not rely on induction.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the validity of using Stirling's approximation and logarithmic transformations, but there is no consensus on the best method to prove the inequalities or whether induction is necessary.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various mathematical concepts and approximations, including Stirling's approximation and the Maclaurin series, but the discussion does not resolve the specific mathematical steps or assumptions required for the proof.

juantheron
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If $A = (300)^{600}$ and $B=600!$ and $C = (200)^{600}$, Then arrangement of $A,B,C$ in Decreasing order, is

My approach:: Here $A>C$ and Using the formula $\displaystyle \left(\frac{n}{2}\right)^n>n! >\left(\frac{n}{3}\right)^n$ for all natural no. $n>6$

and put $n=600,$ we get $(300)^{600}>600!>(200)^{600}$ So $A>B>C$

My Question is How can we prove $\displaystyle \left(\frac{n}{2}\right)^n>n! >\left(\frac{n}{3}\right)^n$ for all natural no. $n>6$

Can we prove it without induction.

Thanks
 
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jacks said:
If $A = (300)^{600}$ and $B=600!$ and $C = (200)^{600}$, Then arrangement of $A,B,C$ in Decreasing order, is

My approach:: Here $A>C$ and Using the formula $\displaystyle \left(\frac{n}{2}\right)^n>n! >\left(\frac{n}{3}\right)^n$ for all natural no. $n>6$

and put $n=600,$ we get $(300)^{600}>600!>(200)^{600}$ So $A>B>C$

My Question is How can we prove $\displaystyle \left(\frac{n}{2}\right)^n>n! >\left(\frac{n}{3}\right)^n$ for all natural no. $n>6$

Can we prove it without induction.

Thanks
This should follow from Stirling's formula together with the fact that $2<e<3$.
 
jacks said:
If $A = (300)^{600}$ and $B=600!$ and $C = (200)^{600}$, Then arrangement of $A,B,C$ in Decreasing order, is

My approach:: Here $A>C$ and Using the formula $\displaystyle \left(\frac{n}{2}\right)^n>n! >\left(\frac{n}{3}\right)^n$ for all natural no. $n>6$

and put $n=600,$ we get $(300)^{600}>600!>(200)^{600}$ So $A>B>C$

My Question is How can we prove $\displaystyle \left(\frac{n}{2}\right)^n>n! >\left(\frac{n}{3}\right)^n$ for all natural no. $n>6$

Can we prove it without induction.

Thanks

The proof is made easier if You consider logarithms, because...

$\displaystyle \ln\ (\frac{n}{2})^{n} = n\ (\ln n - \ln 2)\ (1)$

$\displaystyle \ln\ (\frac{n}{3})^{n} = n\ (\ln n - \ln 3)\ (2)$

$\displaystyle \ln n! \sim n\ (\ln n - 1)\ (3)$

Take into account that $\displaystyle \ln 2 < 1 < \ln 3$...

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
Thanks chisigma

would you like to explain me How we get $\ln(n!)\approx n\left(\ln (n)-1\right)$
 
jacks said:
Thanks chisigma

would you like to explain me How we get $\ln(n!)\approx n\left(\ln (n)-1\right)$

It consists in the Stirling's approximation that in more precise form is...

$\displaystyle \ln n! = n\ \ln n - n + \mathcal {O} (\ln n)\ (1)$ Stirling's Approximation -- from Wolfram MathWorld

Kind regards

$\chi$ $\sigma$
 
The lower bound $n!>\left(\frac{n}{3}\right)^n$ is easy to obtain from the Maclaurin series for $e^x$. We have $e^x=\sum_{n=0}^\infty \frac{x^n}{n!}$. In particular, $e^x>\frac{x^n}{n!}$. Taking $x=n$ gives $e^n>\frac{n^n}{n!}$, i.e., $n!>\left(\frac{n}{e}\right)^n> \left(\frac{n}{3}\right)^n$ since $e<3$.
 
jacks said:
Thanks chisigma

would you like to explain me How we get $\ln(n!)\approx n\left(\ln (n)-1\right)$

Alternatively... in...

http://mathhelpboards.com/discrete-mathematics-set-theory-logic-15/difference-equation-tutorial-draft-part-i-426.html#post2494

...it has been demonstrated that for x 'large enough' is... $\displaystyle \phi(x) = \frac{d}{d x} \ln x! \sim \ln x\ (1)$... so that... $\displaystyle \ln n! \sim \int_{0}^{n} \ln x\ dx = n\ \ln n - n\ (2)$ Kind regards$\chi$ $\sigma$
 

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