Proving Subgroups of Free Abelian Groups: A Troubleshooting Guide

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving properties of subgroups of free abelian groups, specifically focusing on the relationship between generators and coefficients within these subgroups. The participants explore a particular proof strategy and its challenges, touching on theoretical aspects of group structure.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • One participant proposes a method involving the identification of a minimal non-zero coefficient of a generator in a subgroup of a free abelian group.
  • Another participant provides a counterexample using the group Z² to illustrate a potential flaw in the initial reasoning, suggesting that the minimal coefficient does not guarantee the inclusion of all multiples in the subgroup.
  • A later reply acknowledges the misunderstanding and recognizes that the initial claim may not hold true, indicating a realization of the complexity involved in the proof.
  • Another participant inquires about the specific proof goal, highlighting a lack of clarity in the discussion.
  • The original poster concludes that they have resolved their issue independently, indicating a shift in focus away from the collaborative troubleshooting.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the validity of the proposed proof method, with one participant providing a counterexample that challenges the original claim. The discussion reflects uncertainty and a lack of consensus on the proof's correctness.

Contextual Notes

The discussion reveals limitations in the initial assumptions regarding the relationship between coefficients and subgroup membership, as well as the dependence on specific examples that may not generalize.

gonzo
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I'm working on a proof for subgroups of free abelian groups and am having trouble with a step (I know other methods, but would like to try and make this one work if possible).

The basic idea is let G be a free abelian group with generators [itex](g_1...g_n)[/itex] and let H be a subgroup of G.

Assuming a suitable renumbering of the generators so that g1 does not have all zero coefficients in H, we can find a minimal coefficient of g1 in H (with respect to absolute value, and non-zero of course), and then it is easy to show that all other coefficient of g1 in H have to be multiples of this coefficient. Call it [itex]\alpha[/itex].

I realized that might not have been clear. What I mean is let:

[itex]h=a_1 g_1 +...+a_n g_n \in H[/itex]

then [itex]\alpha[/itex] is minimal of all a1 so that we know there is some element [itex]h_2[/itex] in H such that[itex]h_2=\alpha g_1 +...+a_n g_n \in H[/itex]

And all other a1's in an arbitrary h are multiples of [itex]\alpha[/itex].

What I would like to do is show that [itex]\alpha g_1 \in H[/itex]

But maybe this isn't necessarily true? Or am I missing something simple to show this?
 
Last edited:
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Hrm. I still don't understand exactly what you want to say. But maybe a bad example will be useful!

Consider the free abelian group on 2 generators, G = Z².

Let H = { (m, n) | m + n is even }

H is a subgroup of Z². The smallest scalar multiple of the generator (1, 0) that lies in H is 2(1, 0). Alas, 1(1, 0) + 1(0, 1) lies in H, and |1| < |2|.
 
I guess I wasn't clear enough, sorry. However, even though you seem to have misunderstood what I meant your example does show why I was having trouble proving my result since it is apparently not true, so thanks.

I was looking for a simplification of a proof, but I guess that was wishful thinking.
 
what are you trying to prove?
 
Last edited:
I figured it out, but thanks anyway.
 

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