Proving Suprenum of A and B: Bob's Question

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the relationship between the supremum of the union of two non-empty sets A and B, specifically whether sup(A ∪ B) equals max(sup A, sup B). The scope includes theoretical reasoning and mathematical definitions related to supremum.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Bob questions whether sup(A ∪ B) can be expressed as sup(A) < sup(A ∪ B) and sup(B) < sup(A ∪ B), and seeks clarification on the proof process.
  • Some participants emphasize the need to verify the definitions of supremum and clarify that sup is not a set but an element of R.
  • Bob proposes that if sup(A ∪ B) has a larger smallest upper bound than both sup(A) and sup(B), this could support his argument.
  • There is a suggestion that demonstrating sup(A ∪ B) as an upper bound and showing it is the least upper bound are necessary steps in the proof.
  • Bob expresses frustration over needing to fill in gaps in understanding and emphasizes the importance of demonstrating comprehension of the argument.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants do not reach a consensus on the proof process or the interpretation of supremum. There are differing views on how to approach the proof and the definitions involved.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight the importance of understanding the definitions of supremum and the distinction between elements and sets in this context. There are unresolved aspects regarding the proof steps and the logical connections between claims.

Bob19
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Hello

I have two non-empty sets A and B which is bounded above by R.

Then I'm tasked with proving that

[tex]sup(A \cup B) = max(sup A, sup B)[/tex]

which supposedly means that [tex]sup(A \cup B)[/tex] is the largest of the two numbers sup A and sup B.

Can this then be written as [tex]sup(A) < sup(A \cup B)[/tex] and [tex]sup(B) < sup(A \cup B)[/tex] ?

Can this then be proven by showing that [tex]sup(A) < sup(A \cup B)[/tex] is true?

Or am I totally on the wrong path here??

/Bob
 
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correct your tex and just verify the definitions of sup.
 
matt grime said:
correct your tex and just verify the definitions of sup.
My definition of Supremum is a follows:
every non-empty, bounded above subset of R has a smallest upper bound.

Then [tex]sup(A \cup B)[/tex] has a larger smallest upper bound than sup(A) and sup(B) according to the definition of Supremum ?
Does this prove the given argument in my first post?
/Bob

p.s. If my idear is true, can this then be proven by taking a number z, which I then prove [tex]z \in sup(A \cup B)[/tex] but [tex]z \notin sup(A)[/tex] and [tex]z \notin sup(B)[/tex] ?

/Bob
 
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why are you treating sup as a set (and taking elements in it?). Sup is not a set, it is an element of R.

Sup of a set is the least upper bound (when it exists)

obivously the least upper bound of AuB is the max of the least upper bounds, but you need to verify it, ie show it is an upper bound, and show it is the least upper bound. The first is easy, the second slightly harder.
 
matt grime said:
obivously the least upper bound of AuB is the max of the least upper bounds, but you need to verify it, ie show it is an upper bound, and show it is the least upper bound. The first is easy, the second slightly harder.


Okay those two aspects then prove the argument that

sup(AuB) = max(sup A, sup B) ?


/Bob
 
As I explained to someone else earlier tonight, I can easily see the answer because of experience, YOU need to demonstrate that you understand the answer by not having to let me fill in any blanks. If you don't see that an argument proves something then YOU need to do some work to rectify that, not me.
 

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