Proving that there is one center of the universe.

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the concept of whether the universe has a center, exploring various premises related to its finiteness, curvature, and expansion. Participants engage in theoretical reasoning, questioning the implications of a finite universe and the nature of its edges, if they exist.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that if the universe is finite, it must have a center, suggesting that it can be mapped out.
  • Others argue that the universe is observationally finite but not necessarily provably finite, raising questions about the nature of its edges.
  • One participant mentions that if each observer has their own center, then the universe could be considered infinite, contradicting the premise of finiteness.
  • There are claims that the universe is flat based on measurements from the WMAP satellite, but this is contested with discussions about the implications of curvature and the current belief in a closed universe.
  • Some participants express uncertainty about what lies beyond a proposed edge of the universe, with one suggesting it could lead to a reflection of energy.
  • Another participant challenges the idea of an edge, stating that if the universe is expanding, light would never reach it, and thus there would be no edge to reach.
  • There is mention of the balloon analogy to illustrate the expansion of the universe, with some arguing that it does not adequately represent the situation.
  • Disagreement exists regarding the implications of a closed versus flat universe, with participants questioning the evidence for a closed universe model.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express multiple competing views regarding the existence of a center and edge of the universe, with no consensus reached on these concepts. The discussion remains unresolved with various hypotheses and interpretations presented.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the dependence on definitions of finiteness and curvature, as well as unresolved questions about the nature of dark energy and its effects on the universe's expansion.

  • #31
Hoku said:
The real question isn't whether or not our galaxy cluster is at or near the center of the universe. The question is whether or not there IS a center of the universe in the first place.

You can't ask the question is there a centre of the universe? Without asking the question, where? in other words to prove there is a centre of the universe you have to point at it.

My mention of the CMBr is just to say if its equal in all directions then perhaps we are at the centre. I also realize that like a fog that totally envelopes you, it appears consistent in all directions, but the fog itself tricks us into that by preventing us from viewing further.

The dark flow theory you mention assumes the universe has "bounds" that something outside those bounds could exert a force on it. perhaps it just indicates the universe is much much larger than previously thought and that galaxies tend to cluster together so that what we see as our complete universe is nothing more than a cluster of galaxies within the overall universe and that there are other clusters of galaxies throughout a real universe that is trillions of times larger than the one we can measure.

In other words our big bang was just a violent event in a universe that is full of similar violent events.

If our telescopes allowed us to see only as far as the edge of the milky way. that beyond that was nothing that we could see, or even imagine. we would assume that the milky way was the entire universe. and ponder the strange questions that arise from that postulation.

Then some bright spark invents a new more sensitive telescope that reveals the other galaxies and not just one, an immeasurable number of them. That moment in time might be coming to us where we realize our cluster of galaxies is but one of an immeasurable number of similar clusters.

CC
 

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