Proving the Constant Wronskian Theorem for Scalar ODEs

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around proving the Constant Wronskian Theorem for scalar ordinary differential equations (ODEs), specifically for the equation x'' + q(t)x = 0, where q is a continuous function. Participants explore the properties of the Wronskian of two solutions and its implications for linear independence and the existence of roots.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant seeks help in proving that the Wronskian W(t) is constant and that if x(t_1) = 0, then x'(t_1) ≠ 0 and y(t_1) ≠ 0.
  • Another participant proposes differentiating the Wronskian and substituting the derivatives from the ODE to show that it is constant.
  • There is a clarification regarding the correct form of the second derivatives in the context of the ODE.
  • A participant argues that if x(t_1) = 0 and x(t) is linear independent from y(t), then x'(t_1) must be non-zero to avoid a contradiction regarding the Wronskian.
  • Another participant introduces a new argument regarding the existence of roots of y(t) based on the behavior of x(t) at its roots.
  • A later reply provides a sketch of a proof for the argument about the roots of y(t) based on the signs of the derivatives of x at its roots.
  • Participants discuss the implications of the Mean Value Theorem in their reasoning about the roots of x and y.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the approach to proving the properties of the Wronskian and the implications for linear independence. However, there are some disagreements regarding the details of the arguments and the correctness of specific statements made about the Wronskian and the roots of the functions.

Contextual Notes

Some assumptions about the continuity and behavior of the functions involved are not explicitly stated, and there are unresolved mathematical steps in the arguments presented. The discussion also reflects varying levels of clarity regarding the implications of the Wronskian and the conditions under which the arguments hold.

heinerL
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Hello

I'm trying to solve the following problem: given the scalar ODE x''+q(t)x=0 with a continuous function q.

x(t) and y(t) are two solution of the ODE and the wronskian is:

W(t):=x(t)y'(t)-x'(t)y(t). x(t) and y(t) are linear independent if W(t)\neq 0.

I want to show that W(t) is constant and that if x(t_1)=0 \Rightarrow x'(t_1) \neq 0 and y(t_1) \neq 0.

I am completely lost, can you help me?

Thx
 
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Differentiate x(t)y'(t)- x'(t)y(t) again:
x'y'+ xy''- x"y- x'y'= xy"- x"y
Now, y'= -qy and x"= -qx so that becomes x(-qy)- (-qy)x= 0 for all t. That implies that the Wronskian itself isa constant.
 
HallsofIvy said:
Differentiate x(t)y'(t)- x'(t)y(t) again:
x'y'+ xy''- x"y- x'y'= xy"- x"y
Now, y'= -qy and x"= -qx so that becomes x(-qy)- (-qy)x= 0 for all t. That implies that the Wronskian itself isa constant.

Do you mean y''=-qy and x''=-qx? How do you get this?

And for the second part can i say: Because x(t) and y(t) are linear independent if W(t) \neq 0, \forall t
So let's say x(t) and y(t) are linear independent and x(t_1)=0 \Rightarrow W(t_1)=-x(t_1)*y(t_1) and suppose x'(t_1)=0 \Rightarrow W(t_1)=0 which is a contradiction, that means that if x(t_1)=0 \Rightarrow x'(t_1) \neq 0 \ \ and \ \ y(t_1) \neq 0.

Is this correct?
 
heinerL said:
Do you mean y''=-qy and x''=-qx? How do you get this?

Yeah, this is what Halls meant. It's true of course because x and y satisfy the differential equation.

Your argument for linear independence is correct except when you wrote W(t_1)=-x(t_1)*y(t_1)<br />[/tex] you meant W(t_1)=-x&#039;(t_1)*y(t_1)<br />
 
Ah okey thanks I get it! And yes i meant W(t_1)=-x&#039;(t_1)*y(t_1).

And i found another argument but without proof, do you know how to proof it:

If x(t_1)=x(t_2)=0 \ \ and \ \ x(t) \neq 0 \ \ for \ \ t \in (t_1,t_2) then it follows that y(t) has a exactly one root in (t_1,t_2)
 
I found a way. I'll give a brief sketch for you to try to work out
1) Compare the signs of x'(t1) and x'(t2)
2) Use this to conclude that y(t) has at least one root on (t1, t2)
3) If it has two roots, explain why x(t) has a root inside of (t1, t2)
 
So i try to write down my thoughts:

t_1 &amp; t_2 are roots of x
So
W(t_k)=-x&#039;(t_k)y(t_k)&lt;0 \ \ k =1,2 \Rightarrow y(t_k), x&#039;(t_k) \neq 0

Suppose x&#039;(t_1)&gt;0 \Rightarrow \ \ \ &quot;mean value theorem&quot; \ \ \ x(t)&gt;0
then if x&#039;(t_2)&gt;0 \Rightarrow x(t)&lt;0 which is a contradiction because then x would have another root between t_1 and t_2 therefore x&#039;(t_2)&lt;0

\Rightarrow x&#039;(t_1)&gt;0, x&#039;(t_2)&lt;0 \Rightarrow y(t_1)&gt;0, y(t_2)&lt;0

So y has root in (t_1,t_2)

And there is just one root because if there would be another root one can switch x and y and with above show that there is just one root!

Is this correct?
 

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