Wronskian and two solutions being independent

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relationship between the Wronskian of two solutions of a differential equation and their linear independence. Participants explore the implications of the Wronskian being zero and whether it can coexist with the solutions being linearly independent, particularly in the context of a specific exercise from a textbook.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants assert that the Wronskian being zero does not necessarily imply that the solutions are linearly dependent, challenging the claim that linear independence requires a non-zero Wronskian.
  • Others argue that the textbook's statement that two solutions are linearly independent if and only if the Wronskian equals zero is incorrect.
  • A participant emphasizes that the exercise aims to illustrate that two differentiable functions can be linearly independent while having a vanishing Wronskian.
  • There is a discussion about the meaning of "if and only if" in logical terms, with some participants clarifying its implications regarding the truth of statements about linear independence and the Wronskian.
  • Questions are raised about the continuity requirements of the functions involved in the differential equation.
  • Clarifications are made regarding the terminology, specifically that "to vanish" means to equal zero across the entire interval, not just at isolated points.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express disagreement regarding the relationship between the Wronskian and linear independence, with no consensus reached on the correctness of the textbook statement or the implications of the Wronskian being zero.

Contextual Notes

The discussion references specific properties of functions and theorems related to linear independence and the Wronskian, which may depend on additional conditions not fully explored in the posts.

bubblewrap
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In the uploaded file, question 11 says that in b) the solutions y1 and y2 are linearly independent but the Wronskian equals 0. I think it said that they are independent because it's not a fixed constant times the other solution (-1 for -1<=t<=0 and 1 for 0<=t<=1) but it clearly says in the textbook that the two solutions are linearly independent if and only if Wronskian equals 0.
 

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If two (differentiable) functions are linearly dependent on an interval, then their Wronskian vanishes.

The converse is not true. So: If two functions are linearly independent on an interval, then it does not necessarily follow that their Wronskian does not vanish. The phrase
bubblewrap said:
the two solutions are linearly independent if and only if Wronskian equals 0.
is wrong in any case, so I hope it is not really in your textbook like this.
 
It says so here
 

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bubblewrap said:
It says so here
No, it's not what is written there. It says "unequal".

In any case, if the Wronskian does not vanish, then the functions are linearly independent on the interval in question. This is just the contrapositive of what I wrote here:
Krylov said:
If two (differentiable) functions are linearly dependent on an interval, then their Wronskian vanishes.
The converse is not true. Maybe you know more about the functions ##y_1## and ##y_2## that solve (3) in your book to be able to draw this conclusion, but in general it is false.
 
I made a mistake at the end of my first post I meant 'if and only if ... unequals 0"
 
This is the case where it says that they are linearly independent but the Wronskian is 0

Doesn't 'if and only if' mean necessary and sufficient condition? It means that if linearly independent then the Wronskian always does not equal zero, it never is another case and there are only two cases.
 
Last edited:
Also in the differential equation, do y, dy/dt, dy2/d2t and so on have to be continuous?
 
I believe the point of the exercise in post #1 is exactly to demonstrate that two differentiable functions (here: ##y_1## and ##y_2##) may be linearly independent on an interval (here: ##[-1,1]##) and yet their Wronskian may still vanish identically. This shows that the converse of
Krylov said:
If two (differentiable) functions are linearly dependent on an interval, then their Wronskian vanishes.
is not true.

In part (d) of that exercise it is then asked to show that ##y_1## and ##y_2## cannot satisfy the premise of the corollary in post #3, although I have to guess here because I don't know what equation (3) in your book is. So there is no contradiction between the exercise and the corollary. The corollary is not about arbitrary differentiable functions, but about functions that satisfy additional properties.

If P and Q are two logical statements, then "P if and only if Q" means: "P implies Q" and "Q implies P". So: Either P and Q are both true, or they are both false.
 
Krylov said:
I believe the point of the exercise in post #1 is exactly to demonstrate that two differentiable functions (here: ##y_1## and ##y_2##) may be linearly independent on an interval (here: ##[-1,1]##) and yet their Wronskian may still vanish identically. This shows that the converse of

is not true.

In part (d) of that exercise it is then asked to show that ##y_1## and ##y_2## cannot satisfy the premise of the corollary in post #3, although I have to guess here because I don't know what equation (3) in your book is. So there is no contradiction between the exercise and the corollary. The corollary is not about arbitrary differentiable functions, but about functions that satisfy additional properties.

If P and Q are two logical statements, then "P if and only if Q" means: "P implies Q" and "Q implies P". So: Either P and Q are both true, or they are both false.
Does 'to vanish' mean being 0?
Like, does W vanishes mean W equals 0?
 
  • #10
bubblewrap said:
Does 'to vanish' mean being 0?
Like, does W vanishes mean W equals 0?
Yes. In this context "##W## vanishes" means that ##W## is zero not just in a point but on the entire interval.
 

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