Pursuing Physics, but limited finance. ISO opinions.

[Jadenag]

Hello guys. I am a student in Pakistan. I am really into Physics/maths. And Id like to pursue an education in one of these fields particularly Physics(undergrad). I just got done with my Alevels. ( Cambridge international examinations). I am expecting a relatively decent result and my past transcripts are by no means bad at all. But they arent exactly "MIT" material.
There arent really many schools to study Physics in Pakistan. And the ones that do offer Physics, have either no recognition or have horrible campuses and university life. I feel Pakistan isn't the best option to pursue my Physics and Iwe always been one for the states. Iwe done a lot of research though and iwe realized that international fees is quite out of my reach. Its not soo much that I am poor. Its just that the exchange rate is so bad. 1usd=85pak rupees.
I looked into Canada as well. I even applied to U of Toronto and Waterloo and while I got into both, neither offered me a scholarship over 3k and my final per year finaces were coming out to be around 40-45k. Multiply that by like 80 and that's how much I am having to pay as an interrnational student. That is out of question.
Im in a huge fix and I need your opinion. I really want to study Physics, and I want to study it at an institution in which I have fun. And by fun I mean I want to go to an institution which I know has proper staff and equipment and resources to help me study Physics. I don't know if the universities here can provide that.
Im sure some of you may talk about scholarships but honestly, 3-4k scholarships are like pocket change for me. And like I said, wh ile my transcripts are by no means bad, they are by no means enough to get me into an ivy standard university which would mean Id get full scholarship etc. All other good universities don't really have the sort of funding to provide full scholarships and even if they did then I probably wouldn't be the guy getting it.
My parents could probably go as far as 800000 Pak rupees per year. Thats like $10k. The rest I need to arrange for myself. I don't know how far part time jobs and on camppus jobs will help me. I can't just go and hope ill find/get these Id need some sort of an assurance before hand.
I hate to think about it, but does this mean I should stop looking into Canada/USA to further my studies? Should I consider some place else?
Also one remotely decent option I do have in Pakistan is LUMS. I am expecting to get a positive reply from here. And while they offer Physics as a undergrad major, they are internationally recognised for their commerce programs. The school of science is only a few years old. I have a bad feeling ill have to succum to this If I do get an acceptance from here.
Any comments/ thoughts would be appreciated. Thankyou.

 

[Clever-Name]

I'd strongly recommend contacting the financial aid office of the schools you have been accepted to. They might have some ideas about how you can pick up the extra financial slack. There is no doubt in my mind you'll have to work during your studies, but the financial aid systems at Canadian universities have strong financial need bursaries and additional scholarships you may qualify for.

Look around for any external scholarships and bursaries you may qualify for (there might be some that you qualify just for the fact that you aren't Canadian). Definitely speak to someone at the financial aid offices and see what they can do for you. If they've accepted you then I'm sure they want you there, they might be able to give you some sort of financial compensation in order to bring you here.

Also check out:

www.scholarshipscanada.com
and
www.studentawards.com

Good Luck! I hope something works out for you.

 

[micromass]

Why not study in Europe? Our physics programs are just as good as US programs. And universities are often less pricy...

 

[Jadenag]

Why not study in Europe? Our physics programs are just as good as US programs. And universities are often less pricy...

They are less pricey, but only remotely. 1pound=130+ Pak rupees. With 20k+ a year for an international student it turns out to be pretty close to usa/canada

 

[micromass]

My university in Belgium would only be 10k for international students. And maybe you can get scholarships... I guess this holds for all Belgian universities. So I would keep looking if I were you...

 

[Nano-Passion]

You can get loans where you don't have to pay them until you graduate/start working.

If your planning to work in the USA its still going to be about 20k and there is no need to pay them in paki money.

Are you planning to work in the USA or you want to work back in Pakistan?

 

[Jadenag]

You can get loans where you don't have to pay them until you graduate/start working.

If your planning to work in the USA its still going to be about 20k and there is no need to pay them in paki money.

Are you planning to work in the USA or you want to work back in Pakistan?

The reason I am not for loan soo much is because the interest is crazy. I would still consider it if I didnt have to start paying within like 6 weeks of graduating. I mean if I am taking a loan, Ill probably be taking it for my whole duration of undergrad. Thats going to build up to be a lot. And If I can't get a job immediately then ill be screwed.

Im sorry I don't understand what you meant by it being 20k? You mean working while I am there in the states? Like a part time job? Yes. Ill obviously have to do that. But from all iwe seen, the state universities are like around 25-30 and the good private universities are all 35k+

 

[Jadenag]

My university in Belgium would only be 10k for international students. And maybe you can get scholarships... I guess this holds for all Belgian universities. So I would keep looking if I were you...

Ill look into this. Though I know a lot of people who study from british universities and can't find jobs and have to return. I would like a job somewhere other than Pakistan. Id hate to be away from ffamily. But like I said, not only is there no propoer universitiy for physics, but also is there NO scope whatso ever for Physics in Pakistan. Only business and medicine pay here. Everything else doesnt.

 

[Nano-Passion]

The reason I am not for loan soo much is because the interest is crazy. I would still consider it if I didnt have to start paying within like 6 weeks of graduating. I mean if I am taking a loan, Ill probably be taking it for my whole duration of undergrad. Thats going to build up to be a lot. And If I can't get a job immediately then ill be screwed.

Im sorry I don't understand what you meant by it being 20k? You mean working while I am there in the states? Like a part time job? Yes. Ill obviously have to do that. But from all iwe seen, the state universities are like around 25-30 and the good private universities are all 35k+

I apologized, I meant around 40k as you stated. I didn't mean working, I meant taking loans.

If loans bother you then try to get subsidized loans. Subsidized loans are loans where you don't get charged any interest until you graduate and start paying it off.

 

[ZapperZ]

People! Before you hand out such advice, you better consider carefully what you are advising, and if it is even possible.

As an undergraduate international student, the student will have very limited opportunity to get any form of assistantships or loans in the US. Get that point out of the way first. Practically all form of loans and financial assistance are meant for US residents and immigrants, not for non-immigrants. Furthermore, a person coming to the US for studies will have a very restricted visa (F1, J1, etc.) and will NOT be allowed to work off-campus, and without permission. This is assuming that one can show financial support to get that visa in the FIRST place!

I know some of you mean well by offering your advice, but you could do more harm than good by providing erroneous information, or information that might not be relevant to this person.

Zz.

 

[Jadenag]

Exactly what ZapperZ said!

 

[Vanadium 50]

I don't understand why you multiply the $40K per year by 80: international students don't pay $3M a year.

Anyway, Zz is correct. Much of the support that is available to US citizens is not available to international students. This is unlikely to change any time soon. I feel for you - Pakistan's science is not what it could be, and the Pakistani rejection of offers of help from Abdus Salam (first and only Nobel prize winner from Pakistan) on religious grounds have not improved matters.

How serious are you? One option would be to join the US Army, under the MAVNI program. This provides an expedited path to residency and citizenship, with various financial benefits for continuing your education later. It's certainly not a decision one should make lightly.

 

[Jadenag]

I don't understand why you multiply the $40K per year by 80: international students don't pay $3M a year.

Anyway, Zz is correct. Much of the support that is available to US citizens is not available to international students. This is unlikely to change any time soon. I feel for you - Pakistan's science is not what it could be, and the Pakistani rejection of offers of help from Abdus Salam (first and only Nobel prize winner from Pakistan) on religious grounds have not improved matters.

How serious are you? One option would be to join the US Army, under the MAVNI program. This provides an expedited path to residency and citizenship, with various financial benefits for continuing your education later. It's certainly not a decision one should make lightly.

I am serious. I am interested in maths/physics and anything that has a lot of it. So I am also interested in aeronautical and astro physics etc. But ALL of those especially the last two arent even available in Pakistan. I am sure there is another way.

The reason why I am multiplying by 80 is to convert it to Pak rupees since a lot of the finance will be coming from my home.

 

[Jadenag]

Also, I have some family in the states. In the state of Texas in Tyler and Houston. Iwe always been one for private universities but they are apparently way too expensive. The State unis are a bit cheaper. My grand father owns a chain of restaurants in tyler where I could easily get a job. But I looked into UT Tyler and it didnt seem very convincing. Should I just forget about everything else and get an education from UT tyler? I mean I didnt really want to study from a school which is not at ALL known for its science programs. But I am running out of options.

 

[Skrew]

Not to come off as harsh but public(to a lesser extent private) universities are largely funded by tax payers of the country the university resides in who pay in order to have citizens attend those universities. They don't exist to provide education to the world, particularly when current citizens can barely afford the tuition.

 

[ZapperZ]

Not to come off as harsh but public(to a lesser extent private) universities are largely funded by tax payers of the country the university resides in who pay in order to have citizens attend those universities. They don't exist to provide education to the world, particularly when current citizens can barely afford the tuition.

This may be true for undergraduate education, but for graduate education in science, engineering, etc., this is not true. The various forms of assistantships given for graduate students (TA, RA) are typically available to anyone, regardless of country of origin. At some point, these institutions want to attract the BEST students, and that includes students from other countries.

Zz.

 

[twofish-quant]

I looked into UT Tyler and it didnt seem very convincing. Should I just forget about everything else and get an education from UT tyler? I mean I didnt really want to study from a school which is not at ALL known for its science programs. But I am running out of options.

One of the good things about the US system is that the top universities are excellent, but the no-name schools are reasonable. This is unlike other places where anything but the top is awful. Also being in a place where you have family is extremely useful.

One thing that you should try to do is to look for schools that you are interested in and contact people in the Pakistani Students Association or International Students Organization at the university. Those organizations typically have very, very good information about immigration and admissions issues.

 

[twofish-quant]

Not to come off as harsh but public(to a lesser extent private) universities are largely funded by tax payers of the country the university resides in who pay in order to have citizens attend those universities. They don't exist to provide education to the world, particularly when current citizens can barely afford the tuition.

In the US, the government has been withdrawing funding to universities, and a lot of universities are in this scramble for international students. For undergraduate students, people pay full tuition so it's a net financial positive. For graduate students, international students are willing to work cheap for a green card.

 

[Schrodu]

I am serious. I am interested in maths/physics and anything that has a lot of it. So I am also interested in aeronautical and astro physics etc. But ALL of those especially the last two arent even available in Pakistan. I am sure there is another way.

The reason why I am multiplying by 80 is to convert it to Pak rupees since a lot of the finance will be coming from my home.

I don't want to set off any debate here, but have you considered studying in India? There are several decent universities in India (IITs, IISERs, CMI, IISc, etc., search the forum for more info). Granted these aren't at the level of MIT or the Ivy league, but they will give you a chance of learning some real physics in your undergrad. Admissions to IITs etc. might be a bit tricky given that you're from Pakistan (you should find this out for yourself) but I know for a fact that CMI does take international students and they have the same fees/scholarships as Indians.

Also, the conversion rate is something like 1 INR = 2 PKR, so its well within your budget.

 

[Jadenag]

I have heard of the IITs. Ill look into them in more detail thanks.

 

[yenchin]

Perhaps you can also consider Singapore, such as National University of Singapore.

Physics Department website: http://www.physics.nus.edu.sg/

International students take up tuition fee grant, and are required to work in Singapore (or with some Singapore registered companies oversea) for 3 years. You don't have to pay them, just work for them. This covers 80% of the tuition fee (you should check the %, I am not sure if this is still the correct number). You can take up interest-free loan to cover the remaining 20% of the fee [interest will start once you graduate]. The details are at

http://www.nus.edu.sg/registrar/edu/UG/fees.html

http://www.nus.edu.sg/oam/scholarships-financialaid/financialaid/financial-index.html

 

[Jadenag]

Perhaps you can also consider Singapore, such as National University of Singapore.

Physics Department website: http://www.physics.nus.edu.sg/

International students take up tuition fee grant, and are required to work in Singapore (or with some Singapore registered companies oversea) for 3 years. You don't have to pay them, just work for them. This covers 80% of the tuition fee (you should check the %, I am not sure if this is still the correct number). You can take up interest-free loan to cover the remaining 20% of the fee [interest will start once you graduate]. The details are at

http://www.nus.edu.sg/registrar/edu/UG/fees.html

http://www.nus.edu.sg/oam/scholarships-financialaid/financialaid/financial-index.html

I looked into this quite a while back. Its an amazing uni.. but Its very very expensive and I don't remember see anything of the sort that you mentioned above. Maybe I didnt look hard enoughh. Going through the site right now! Thanks.

 

[yenchin]

I looked into this quite a while back. Its an amazing uni.. but Its very very expensive and I don't remember see anything of the sort that you mentioned above. Maybe I didnt look hard enoughh. Going through the site right now! Thanks.

Here's the website of tuition grant: https://tgonline.moe.gov.sg/tgis/normal/index.action. Virtually everyone takes up the grant because otherwise it will be too expensive. The remaining 20% fee might still be quite high, but as I said there are numerous financial assistance available. The amount you will owe the study loan might seem high right now, but as I have come to realize, once you start working (and if you don't spend too much money on other things!), you can pay them off in a few years (probably just nice as you finished your 3 years tuition grant service in Singapore).

 

[ZapperZ]

In the US, the government has been withdrawing funding to universities, and a lot of universities are in this scramble for international students. For undergraduate students, people pay full tuition so it's a net financial positive. For graduate students, international students are willing to work cheap for a green card.

International graduate students do NOT get "green cards", even when they're willing to work cheap. Assistantships in the form of TAship and RAship do not require green cards. It is within their visa rules to receive such awards and work for the university, which is why their term for employment is very restrictive.

Zz.

 

[twofish-quant]

International graduate students do NOT get "green cards", even when they're willing to work cheap.

Not immediately, but it puts them in a much better position once they get their degree.

Assistantships in the form of TAship and RAship do not require green cards. It is within their visa rules to receive such awards and work for the university, which is why their term for employment is very restrictive.

Yes, but if they finish their degree then they get OPT which can be used to get an H-1B, and getting a postgraduate degree makes you eligible for EB-2.

 

[twofish-quant]

One thing about Singapore is that it's frighteningly easy to get permanent residency once you get there. Also the Singapore economy is booming which means that they are putting out the welcome mat, while the US economy is not in the greatest of shape, which means they aren't.

 

[yenchin]

One thing about Singapore is that it's frighteningly easy to get permanent residency once you get there. Also the Singapore economy is booming which means that they are putting out the welcome mat, while the US economy is not in the greatest of shape, which means they aren't.

It used to be that they actually *offer* you permanent residency upon graduation from university, but I heard the process is somewhat more complicated now and not as easy as it used to be. Still, probably relatively easy to get compared to the US.