[Q]Question about harmonic oscilator

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    Harmonic Oscilator
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the mathematical treatment of the quantum harmonic oscillator, specifically focusing on the transformation of variables and the implications for the wave function. Participants explore the derivation of energy eigenstates and the application of the chain rule in calculus to second derivatives in the context of quantum mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning

Main Points Raised

  • Post 1 introduces the time-independent energy eigenstate equation and discusses the classical forbidden domain where kinetic energy becomes negative.
  • Participants question the transformation from the variable \( x \) to \( \epsilon = \beta x \) and its effect on the second derivative of the wave function.
  • There is a proposal that the second derivative should include a factor of \( \beta^2 \) when applying the chain rule, leading to a discussion about the correct form of the equation.
  • Post 3 seeks clarification on the application of the chain rule and the procedure for substituting variables in the context of the wave function.
  • Post 4 mentions that in the classical allowed region, the wave function must decay exponentially as one moves away from the potential.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express uncertainty regarding the correct application of the chain rule and the resulting forms of the equations. There is no consensus on the derivation of the wave function or the implications of the variable transformation.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include potential misunderstandings of the chain rule application and the assumptions made during variable substitution. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps involved in deriving the wave function from the transformed variables.

good_phy
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Hi, Finally! I reached harmonic oscilator! Congratulation!

Most of all QM textbook introduced this formula :

Time independent energy eigenstate equation is

[tex]( - \frac{\hbar^2}{2m} \frac{\partial}{\partial x) + \frac{Kx^2}{2} )\varphi = E\varphi[/tex]

(1)[itex]\varphi_{xx} = -k^2 \varphi[/itex]

[itex]\frac{\hbar^2k^2(x)}{2m} = E - \frac{K}{2}x^2 > 0[/itex]

We focused classically forbidden domain [itex]x^2 > x_{o}^2, E < \frac{Kx^2}{2}[/itex]

In this case, kinetic energy is negative, so [itex]\varphi_{xx} = k'^2 \varphi[/itex] [itex]\frac{\hbar^2k'^2}{2m} = \frac{K}{2}x^2 - E > 0[/itex]

For asymptotic domain, [itex]Kx^2/2 >> E[/itex]

(2) [itex]\varphi_{xx} = \frac{mK}{\hbar^2}\varphi = \beta^4x^2\varphi[/itex] where subscript means 2nd differential, [itex]\beta^2 = \frac{mw_{o}}{\hbar}[/itex]

We let (3) [itex]\epsilon = \beta x[/itex]

(2) appears as (4) [itex]\varphi_{\epsilon\epsilon} = \epsilon^2 \varphi[/itex]

If [itex]\epsilon >>1[/itex] then (2) is approximated to

(5) [itex]\varphi \approx Aexp(\pm\frac{\epsilon^2}{2}) = Aexp(\pm\frac{(\beta x)^2}{2})[/itex]

I have a question. Liboff said (2) become (4) by introducing (3). But If (3) is right, I thought (4) should be [itex]\varphi_{\epsilon\epsilon} = \beta^2\epsilon^2\varphi[/itex]. Is it right?

And I don't know how to derive (5) from (4). Please lead me.
 
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good_phy said:
(2) [itex]\varphi_{xx} = \frac{mK}{\hbar^2}\varphi = \beta^4x^2\varphi[/itex] where subscript means 2nd differential, [itex]\beta^2 = \frac{mw_{o}}{\hbar}[/itex]

We let (3) [itex]\epsilon = \beta x[/itex]

(2) appears as (4) [itex]\varphi_{\epsilon\epsilon} = \epsilon^2 \varphi[/itex]

If [itex]\epsilon >>1[/itex] then (2) is approximated to

(5) [itex]\varphi \approx Aexp(\pm\frac{\epsilon^2}{2}) = Aexp(\pm\frac{(\beta x)^2}{2})[/itex]

I have a question. Liboff said (2) become (4) by introducing (3). But If (3) is right, I thought (4) should be [itex]\varphi_{\epsilon\epsilon} = \beta^2\epsilon^2\varphi[/itex]. Is it right?

And I don't know how to derive (5) from (4). Please lead me.

I don't have Liboff, but since you make substitution of variables from x to beta*epsilon, the second derivative on phi w.r.t to x will change..

[tex]\frac{d^2\phi}{dx^2} \rightarrow \beta ^2 \frac{d^2\phi}{d\epsilon^2}[/tex] (chain rule of calculus)

so it should be: [tex]\phi_{\epsilon\epsilon} = \epsilon^2 \phi[/tex]
 
Thank you for your help! I'm very pleased with you. But Could you tell me how to apply chain rule of calculus on that formula? I just subsitute [itex]x = \beta\epsilon[/itex] into the x of dominator to get your formula. is it right procedure?

What is more, Can you give me a answer of second question?
 
[tex]\frac{d\phi}{dx} = \frac{d\phi}{d\epsilon}\frac{d\epsilon}{dx}[/tex]

what the second question is about is that that "far" away from the potential, (classical allowed region) wave function must go down as an exponential.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:HarmOsziFunktionen.jpg
 
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