Quantifier equivalence in set theory

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Homework Help Overview

The discussion revolves around the equivalence of two logical statements in set theory involving quantifiers and predicates. The original poster is tasked with demonstrating that \(\exists xAP(x)\vee\exists xBP(x)\) is equivalent to \(\exists x(A\cup B)P(x)\). Participants are exploring the implications of these statements and their interpretations.

Discussion Character

  • Conceptual clarification, Assumption checking, Mixed

Approaches and Questions Raised

  • Participants are analyzing the logical structure of the statements and questioning the definitions used, particularly regarding the interpretation of implications and the relationship between sets A and B. There is an exploration of the definitions of the predicates and how they relate to the union and intersection of sets.

Discussion Status

Some participants have offered insights into the interpretations of the logical statements, noting potential misunderstandings in the original poster's approach. There is an acknowledgment of differing interpretations and a recognition of the need for further clarification on the logical equivalences being discussed.

Contextual Notes

Participants are working within the constraints of a homework assignment, which may limit the information available and the approaches they can take. The original poster expresses confusion about their understanding of the problem, indicating a need for deeper exploration of the underlying concepts.

GregA
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Homework Statement


I have been asked to show that \exists xAP(x)\vee\exists xBP(x) is equivalent to \exists x(A\cup B)P(x)



Homework Equations


1) P\rightarrow Q \equiv \neg P \vee Q
2) \neg(P\vee Q)\equiv \neg P \wedge \neg Q
3) P \vee (Q\vee R) \equiv (P\vee Q) \vee R \equiv P \vee Q\vee R


The Attempt at a Solution


\exists xAP(x)\vee\exists xBP(x)
\exists x(x\in A \rightarrow P(x))\vee\exists x(x\in B \rightarrow P(x)) definition of the above
\exists x[(x\notin A \vee P(x))\vee (x\notin B \vee P(x))] using (1)
\exists x(x\notin A \vee x\notin B \vee P(x)) using (3)
\exists x[\neg(x\in A \wedge x\in B) \vee P(x)] using (2)
\exists x[x\in (A\cap B) \rightarrow P(x)] using (1) and simplifying the expression ... \exists x(A\cap B)P(x)

This is not what the book is asking me to show though!...and I can't see where I've gone wrong either:frown: ...Starting from the RHS and trying to show it is equivalent to the LHS gets me:
\exists xAP(x)\wedge\exists xBP(x) which is still no good!

Trying to think of it in terms of words then:
Referring to A as (the set of colours of an object), referring to B as (the set of shapes of an object) and P(x) as ( P likes it) then
\exists xAP(x)\vee\exists xBP(x) is saying that if there exists a certain colour then P likes the object or if there exists a certain shape then P likes the object
My conclusion \exists x(A\cap B)P(x) however says that if there exists a certain shape AND a certain colour then P likes the object

what I am meant to show however seems correct inspite of my efforts ie: \exists x(A\cup B)P(x) if there exists a certain shape OR a certain colour then P likes the object

Can anyone show me where I'm going wrong?
 
Last edited:
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GregA said:

Homework Statement


I have been asked to show that \exists xAP(x)\vee\exists xBP(x) is equivalent to \exists x(A\cup B)P(x)
That is: "either there exist x in A such that P(x) is true or there exist x in B such that P(x) is true" is equivalent to "there exist x in A union B such that P(x) is true"



Homework Equations


1) P\rightarrow Q \equiv \neg P \vee Q
2) \neg(P\vee Q)\equiv \neg P \wedge \neg Q
3) P \vee (Q\vee R) \equiv (P\vee Q) \vee R \equiv P \vee Q\vee R


The Attempt at a Solution


\exists xAP(x)\vee\exists xBP(x)
Yes, that is one of the two statements

\exists x(x\in A \rightarrow P(x))\vee\exists x(x\in B \rightarrow P(x)) definition of the above
Are you sure that's the same thing? I would interpret this as "either there exist x such that if x is in A then P(x) is true or there exist x such that if x is in B then P(x) is true. If P(x) were false for all x in A or B, both statements would be true!

Since x in A \rightarrow x in A\cup B and x in B \right arrow x in A\cup B,
(\exists xAP(x)\vee\exists xBP(x))\rightarrow x in A\cup B P(x)
 
Last edited by a moderator:
\exists x(x\in A \rightarrow P(x))\vee\exists x(x\in B \rightarrow P(x))should be \exists x(x\in A \vee x\in B) \rightarrow P(x))
 
HallsofIvy said:
Are you sure that's the same thing? I would interpret this as "either there exist x such that if x is in A then P(x) is true or there exist x such that if x is in B then P(x) is true. If P(x) were false for all x in A or B, both statements would be true!

I see your point!...thanks for that :smile:
Will now return to my book, figure out where I mis-understood it and then try to finish this question properly

*edit* and thankyou to you Courtigrad as well...I was totally unaware of where I was messing up
 

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