Quantization and fluid mechanics?

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Discussion Overview

The discussion explores the application of quantum field theory to relativistic incompressible fluids, particularly focusing on the potential quantization of velocity vector fields and the role of pressure in a four-vector context. Participants also inquire about the Lagrangian formulation of the Navier-Stokes equations and the complexities involved in quantizing fluid dynamics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants propose that quantum field theory could be applied to relativistic incompressible fluids, questioning if the velocity vector field can be quantized.
  • One participant inquires about the existence of a Lagrangian formulation for the Navier-Stokes system, suggesting that similar techniques to quantum fields might be applicable.
  • Another participant suggests that pressure might not serve as the fourth component of a four-vector, indicating that the stress-energy tensor, a second-rank tensor, may be more relevant.
  • There is a request for elaboration on the use of tensors in this context, reflecting uncertainty about the complexity involved.
  • Some participants note that relativistic hydrodynamics and the quantization of density fluctuations are established areas, mentioning that quantizing these fluctuations involves reducing the system to normal modes.
  • One participant expresses concern that non-linear dynamics in the equations may complicate the use of normal modes, suggesting that such decompositions may only be valid for small perturbations.
  • A reference is made to the work of Joseph Hirschfelder et al. from the 1970s, indicating a historical context for the discussion.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the application of quantum field theory to fluid mechanics, with some agreeing on the established nature of relativistic hydrodynamics while others highlight the complexities and challenges posed by non-linear dynamics. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the specifics of quantization techniques and their applicability.

Contextual Notes

Participants acknowledge the potential limitations of their approaches, particularly concerning the non-linear dynamics of fluid equations and the assumptions required for normal mode decomposition.

quantumfireball
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Quantization and fluid mechanics??

Cant quantum field theory be applied to releativistic imcompressible fluids?
cant the velocity vector field be quantized?
will the pressure of the fluid play the role of the 4th component of the four vector?
what would be the corresponding quanta?
(I know this might sound extremely stupid
but ......)
 
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I don't know about this, but I must ask that is there Lagrangian formulation available for the Navier-Stokes system? If there is, then it could be possible to proceed with somewhat similar techniques as with the other quantum fields too.
 
quantumfireball said:
will the pressure of the fluid play the role of the 4th component of the four vector?

You would probably need to deal with the stress-energy tensor, which is a 2nd-rank tensor, instead of with some four component object.
 
i didnt know it would be so complicated
has anyone written a paper on this?
please elaborate on why to use a tensor?
 
relativistic hydrodynamics of well known. so is quantizing density fluctuations of a fluid. one proceeds in the usual way by reducing the system to normal modes and quantizing those. I guess the relativistic quantum fluid is a bit harder, but there seem to be a few papers on it.

also, people use relativistic hydrodynamics to simulate nuclear collisions at the relativistic heavy ion collider with some degree of success.
 
olgranpappy said:
relativistic hydrodynamics of well known. so is quantizing density fluctuations of a fluid. one proceeds in the usual way by reducing the system to normal modes and quantizing those. I guess the relativistic quantum fluid is a bit harder, but there seem to be a few papers on it.

also, people use relativistic hydrodynamics to simulate nuclear collisions at the relativistic heavy ion collider with some degree of success.

What are normal modes with fluids?
 
I think guys that the problem (the worst one) is that our equations display a non linear dynamics----> all our theories about normal modes fail... we can't use such a decomposition... i think that works only for small perturbation of the fields involved...
regards;
marco;
 


In this regard, consider the work of Joseph Hirschfelder et al circa 197Os.
 

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