Quaternions and Special Relativity

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the relevance and application of quaternions in the context of Special Theory of Relativity (STR), particularly whether a retired high school physics teacher should pursue learning STR using quaternions. Participants explore the potential benefits and limitations of quaternions compared to other mathematical frameworks like four-vectors and tensors.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants question the value of learning STR through quaternions, suggesting that it may not be worthwhile unless there is a specific interest in quaternions.
  • Others argue that quaternions can be applied in STR but may not be the most effective method for learning the theory, with four-vectors and tensors being more beneficial.
  • A participant mentions their interest in Geometric Algebra, which includes quaternions and can condense physics results into concise equations.
  • There is a discussion about the historical context of quaternions in relation to STR, with references to quotes from mathematicians like William Rowan Hamilton and Ludwik Silberstein, highlighting differing opinions on the utility of quaternions.
  • One participant asks if there is a specific problem in STR that is easier to solve using quaternions, indicating a desire for practical applications.
  • Another participant notes that ordinary quaternions are insufficient for producing hyperbolic rotations necessary for Lorentz transformations, suggesting the need for complexified quaternions or Biquaternions.
  • Quaternions are acknowledged to have practical applications in computer graphics and attitude dynamics, where they offer advantages over rotation matrices.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a mix of opinions regarding the usefulness of quaternions in learning STR. While some see potential applications, others believe that quaternions may not provide significant advantages over other mathematical tools. The discussion remains unresolved with multiple competing views on the topic.

Contextual Notes

Participants highlight limitations in using quaternions for certain transformations in STR, noting that ordinary quaternions do not suffice for hyperbolic rotations, which may restrict their applicability in this context.

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TL;DR
Quaternions and Secial Relativity
Is it worthwhile for a retired highschool teacher of Physics to learn the STOR using quaternions?
 
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grzz said:
TL;DR Summary: Quaternions and Secial Relativity

Is it worthwhile for a retired highschool teacher of Physics to learn the STOR using quaternions?
Probably not.
 
It depends on how you define your worth. Do you have a particular penchant for quaternions and how they may apply to different settings? If not, then no.
 
Slight tangent: what's the point of quaternions in SR?
 
After my retirement, I got interested in Geometric Algebra. GA theory includes many special cases like quaternions and can methodically condense many physics results into more concise equation forms.
 
grzz said:
Is it worthwhile for a retired highschool teacher of Physics to learn the STOR using quaternions?

Quaternions can be used for SR, as the following quotes suggest. But I think it does not help to learn SR. More helpful are four-vector and more general four-tensor notation. Differential forms may give addition insight.

Time is said to have only one dimension, and space to have three dimensions. ... The mathematical quaternion partakes of both these elements; in technical language it may be said to be "time plus space", or "space plus time": and in this sense it has, or at least involves a reference to, four dimensions. ... And how the One of Time, of Space the Three, Might in the Chain of Symbols girdled be.
— William Rowan Hamilton (circa 1853)[45]
...
Neither matrices nor quaternions and ordinary vectors were banished from these ten [additional] chapters. For, in spite of the uncontested power of the modern Tensor Calculus, those older mathematical languages continue, in my opinion, to offer conspicuous advantages in the restricted field of special relativity.
— Ludwik Silberstein (1924)[48]
Source:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quaternion#Quotations
 
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Sagittarius A-Star said:
— Oliver Heaviside (1893)[47]
Neither matrices nor quaternions and ordinary vectors were banished from these ten [additional] chapters. For, in spite of the uncontested power of the modern Tensor Calculus, those older mathematical languages continue, in my opinion, to offer conspicuous advantages in the restricted field of special relativity.
Oops, that's a misattribution, since special relativity was first published in 1905. According to Wikipedia, the quote is actually due to Ludwik Silberstein in 1924. And this more modern quotation is telling:

... quaternions appear to exude an air of nineteenth century decay, as a rather unsuccessful species in the struggle-for-life of mathematical ideas. Mathematicians, admittedly, still keep a warm place in their hearts for the remarkable algebraic properties of quaternions but, alas, such enthusiasm means little to the harder-headed physical scientist.
— Simon L. Altmann (1986)
 
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My question is "Why"?

Is there a single problem in SR that is easier to solve with quaternions?
 
renormalize said:
Oops, that's a misattribution, since special relativity was first published in 1905. According to Wikipedia, the quote is actually due to Ludwik Silberstein in 1924.
Thanks! I corrected the attribution in my citation of Wikipedia.
 
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  • #10
My interest is not to start learning SR using quaternions. But, having learnt a bit of SR using four-vectors, one may feel inclined to see how this can be done using quaternions.
From the above replies it seems that
quaternions were not laid to rest for ever.
For example, did quaternions find some use in computer software?
Thanks
 
  • #11
grzz said:
For example, did quaternions find some use in computer software?
Yes, quaternions are quite often used in computer graphics and in general numerical code for spatial calculations as they have some advantages over e.g. 3x3 rotation matrices, e.g. compared to rotation matrices its cheaper to compose quaternions, but more expensive to rotate vectors. But it really depends on what you are going to use it for. It is fairly common for a program that need the benefits of both notations to actually employ both, especially since converting between them is fairly straight forward and somewhat cheap.

Quaternions are also popular in analysis of attitude dynamics and using them makes some derivations possible or at least easier, e.g. Wahba's problem is often solved using quaternions even if the input is given as rotation matrices.
 
  • #12
grzz said:
My interest is not to start learning SR using quaternions. But, having learnt a bit of SR using four-vectors, one may feel inclined to see how this can be done using quaternions.
Unfortunately, in order to produce hyperbolic rotations (i.e. Lorentz transformations), ordinary quaternions don't suffice. You have to use complexified quaternions, better known as Biquaternions.

A good introduction was given by the great mathematician John Lighton Synge:
"Quaternions, Lorentz transformations, and the Conway–Dirac–Eddington matrices", Communications of the Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies, 21

The most general Lorentz transformation in terms of angle ##\phi## and rapidity ##\eta## probably looks something like this:

$$\begin{matrix}q'=Qq\bar{Q}^{\ast}\\
\left[Q\bar{Q}=1,\ i=\sqrt{-1},\ \mathbf{U}^{2}=-1,\ \chi=\frac{1}{2}\left(\phi+i\eta\right)\right]\\
\hline \begin{aligned}q & =x_{0}+ie_{1}x_{1}+ie_{2}x_{2}+ie_{3}x_{3}\\
Q & =a+ib\\
& =\left(a_{0}+e_{1}a_{1}+e_{2}a_{2}+e_{3}a_{3}\right)+i\left(b_{0}+e_{1}b_{1}+e_{2}b_{2}+e_{3}b_{3}\right)\\
& =\left(a_{0}+ib_{0}\right)+e_{1}\left(a_{1}+ib_{1}\right)+e_{2}\left(a_{2}+ib_{2}\right)+e_{3}\left(a_{3}+ib_{3}\right)\\
& =\cos\chi+e_{1}u_{1}\sin\chi+e_{2}u_{2}\sin\chi+e_{3}u_{3}\sin\chi\\
& =\cos\chi+\mathbf{U}\sin\chi=e^{\chi\mathbf{\mathbf{U}}}\\
\bar{Q}^{\ast} & =\bar{a}-i\bar{b}\\
& =\left(a_{0}-e_{1}a_{1}-e_{2}a_{2}-e_{3}a_{3}\right)-i\left(b_{0}-e_{1}b_{1}-e_{2}b_{2}-e_{3}b_{3}\right)\\
& =\left(a_{0}-ib_{0}\right)-e_{1}\left(a_{1}-ib_{1}\right)-e_{2}\left(a_{2}-ib_{2}\right)-e_{3}\left(a_{3}-ib_{3}\right)\\
& =\cos\chi^{\ast}-e_{1}u_{1}\sin\chi^{\ast}-e_{2}u_{2}\sin\chi^{\ast}-e_{3}u_{3}\sin\chi^{\ast}\\
& =\cos\chi^{\ast}-\mathbf{U}\sin\chi^{\ast}=e^{-\chi^{\ast}\mathbf{U}}
\end{aligned}
\end{matrix}$$

or solved for the coordinates:

$$\begin{matrix}\begin{array}{lll}
x'_{0} & =x_{0}\left(a_{0}^{2}+a_{1}^{2}+a_{2}^{2}+a_{3}^{2}+b_{0}^{2}+b_{1}^{2}+b_{2}^{2}+b_{3}^{2}\right) & =x_{0}\cosh\eta\\
& \qquad+x_{1}\left(2a_{1}b_{0}-2a_{0}b_{1}-2a_{3}b_{2}+2a_{2}b_{3}\right) & \qquad-x_{1}u_{1}\sinh\eta\\
& \qquad+x_{2}\left(2a_{2}b_{0}+2a_{3}b_{1}-2a_{0}b_{2}-2a_{1}b_{3}\right) & \qquad-x_{2}u_{2}\sinh\eta\\
& \qquad+x_{3}\left(2a_{3}b_{0}-2a_{2}b_{1}+2a_{1}b_{2}-2a_{0}b_{3}\right) & \qquad-x_{3}u_{3}\sinh\eta\\
x'_{1} & =x_{0}\left(2a_{1}b_{0}-2a_{0}b_{1}+2a_{3}b_{2}-2a_{2}b_{3}\right) & =-x_{0}u_{1}\sinh\eta\\
& \qquad+x_{1}\left(a_{0}^{2}+a_{1}^{2}-a_{2}^{2}-a_{3}^{2}+b_{0}^{2}+b_{1}^{2}-b_{2}^{2}-b_{3}^{2}\right) & \qquad+x_{1}\left(u_{1}^{2}\cosh\eta+\left(1-u_{1}^{2}\right)\cos\phi\right)\\
& \qquad+x_{2}\left(2a_{1}a_{2}-2a_{0}a_{3}+2b_{1}b_{2}-2b_{0}b_{3}\right) & \qquad+x_{2}\left(u_{1}u_{2}\left(\cosh\eta-\cos\phi\right)-u_{3}\sin\phi\right)\\
& \qquad+x_{3}\left(2a_{0}a_{2}+2a_{1}a_{3}+2b_{0}b_{2}+2b_{1}b_{3}\right) & \qquad+x_{3}\left(u_{1}u_{3}\left(\cosh\eta-\cos\phi\right)+u_{2}\sin\phi\right)\\
x'_{2} & =x_{0}\left(2a_{2}b_{0}-2a_{3}b_{1}-2a_{0}b_{2}+2a_{1}b_{3}\right) & =-x_{0}u_{2}\sinh\eta\\
& \qquad+x_{1}\left(2a_{1}a_{2}+2a_{0}a_{3}+2b_{1}b_{2}+2b_{0}b_{3}\right) & \qquad+x_{1}\left(u_{1}u_{2}\left(\cosh\eta-\cos\phi\right)+u_{3}\sin\phi\right)\\
& \qquad+x_{2}\left(a_{0}^{2}-a_{1}^{2}+a_{2}^{2}-a_{3}^{2}+b_{0}^{2}-b_{1}^{2}+b_{2}^{2}-b_{3}^{2}\right) & \qquad+x_{2}\left(u_{2}^{2}\cosh\eta+\left(1-u_{2}^{2}\right)\cos\phi\right)\\
& \qquad+x_{3}\left(-2a_{0}a_{1}+2a_{2}a_{3}-2b_{0}b_{1}+2b_{2}b_{3}\right) & \qquad+x_{3}\left(u_{2}u_{3}\left(\cosh\eta-\cos\phi\right)-u_{1}\sin\phi\right)\\
x'_{3} & =x_{0}\left(2a_{3}b_{0}+2a_{2}b_{1}-2a_{1}b_{2}-2a_{0}b_{3}\right) & =-x_{0}u_{3}\sinh\eta\\
& \qquad+x_{1}\left(-2a_{0}a_{2}+2a_{1}a_{3}-2b_{0}b_{2}+2b_{1}b_{3}\right) & \qquad+x_{1}\left(u_{1}u_{3}\left(\cosh\eta-\cos\phi\right)-u_{2}\sin\phi\right)\\
& \qquad+x_{2}\left(2a_{0}a_{1}+2a_{2}a_{3}+2b_{0}b_{1}+2b_{2}b_{3}\right) & \qquad+x_{2}\left(u_{2}u_{3}\left(\cosh\eta-\cos\phi\right)+u_{1}\sin\phi\right)\\
& \qquad+x_{3}\left(a_{0}^{2}-a_{1}^{2}-a_{2}^{2}+a_{3}^{2}+b_{0}^{2}-b_{1}^{2}-b_{2}^{2}+b_{3}^{2}\right) & \qquad+x_{3}\left(u_{3}^{2}\cosh\eta+\left(1-u_{3}^{2}\right)\cos\phi\right)
\end{array}\\
\text{where}\\
\left[a_{0}^{2}-b_{0}^{2}+a_{1}^{2}-b_{1}^{2}+a_{2}^{2}-b_{2}^{2}+a_{3}^{2}-b_{3}^{2}=1,\ a_{0}b_{0}+a_{1}b_{1}+a_{2}b_{2}+a_{3}b_{3}=0,\ u_{1}^{2}+u_{2}^{2}+u_{3}^{2}=1\right]
\end{matrix}$$

Ordinary Lorentz boosts follow by setting

$$\begin{matrix}\text{3+1 boosts:}\ a_{1}=a_{2}=a_{3}=b_{0}=\phi=0\\
\text{2+1 boosts:}\ a_{1}=a_{2}=b_{0}=b_{3}=\phi=u_{3}=0\\
\text{1+1 boosts:}\ a_{1}=a_{2}=a_{3}=b_{0}=b_{2}=b_{3}=\phi=u_{2}=u_{3}=0
\end{matrix}$$
 
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  • #13
grzz said:
For example, did quaternions find some use in computer software?
Quaternions are used in keeping track of orientations of a moving object (like a simulated airplane) in 3-space. The alternative is Euler angles, which suffer from the problem of "gimbal lock". If an airplane points straight up, the Euler angles become multiply defined, whereas quaternions do not.

UPDATE: Quaternions are also used in the inertial reference systems of real fighter airplanes for the same reason.
 
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  • #14
Histspec said:
Unfortunately, in order to produce hyperbolic rotations (i.e. Lorentz transformations), ordinary quaternions don't suffice. You have to use complexified quaternions, better known as Biquaternions.

A good introduction was given by the great mathematician John Lighton Synge:
"Quaternions, Lorentz transformations, and the Conway–Dirac–Eddington matrices"
Is it possible for somebody to send me p26 of the above book by J L Synge because this page in my copy is very faint.
Thanks
 
  • #15
grzz said:
Is it possible for somebody to send me p26 of the above book by J L Synge because this page in my copy is very faint.
Thanks
Since your copy is from their website, you might try contacting the library at the Dublin Institute for Advanced Studies directly.
 
  • #16
grzz said:
Is it possible for somebody to send me p26 of the above book by J L Synge because this page in my copy is very faint.
Thanks
On p. 26 we find the inverse of formula 5.17:

(5.18) ##q=(1-J)q'(1+J^{\ast})##

and the most familiar form of the Lorentz transformation:

(5.19) ##x'=\gamma(x-vt),\ y'=y,\ z'=z,\ t'=\gamma(t-vx),\ \gamma^{-2}=1-v^{2}##

which is shown to be included in 5.16 on p. 25 by setting ##I=e_{1}##, thus

(5.20) ##q'=(\cos\chi+e_{1}\sin\chi)q(\cos\chi^{\ast}-e_{1}\sin\chi^{\ast})##

and by substituting

(5.21) ##\begin{aligned}q= & xe_{1}+ye_{2}+ze_{3}+it\\
q'= & x'e_{1}+y'e_{2}+z'e_{3}+it'
\end{aligned}
##

the formulas on p. 27 follow.
 
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  • #17
Histspec said:
On p. 26 we find the inverse of formula 5.17:
...
A big THANK YOU!
I am trying to read J L Synge book, though sometimes I am finding it rather difficult to follow.
 
  • #18
grzz said:
TL;DR Summary: Quaternions and Secial Relativity

Is it worthwhile for a retired highschool teacher of Physics to learn the STOR using quaternions?

I don't know. But I can show, how quaternions are related to Lorentz transformations. Quaternions are just one character in the whole story. The story is about the 2\times 2 complex matrices, M_{2,2}(\mathbb C). They can be classified as follows.
  • traceles Hermitian matrices (m^*=m, \mathrm{trace}(m)=0)
  • traceles anti-hermitian matrices (m^*=-m, \mathrm{trace}(m)=0)
  • real scalar matrices (m= rI \quad (r\in\mathbb R))
  • imaginary scalar matrices (m= irI \quad (r\in\mathbb R))
The traceless Hermitians are the real linear combinations of the Pauli matrices. They form a 3-dimensional real vector space \mathfrak E_3, which is an Euclidean vector space with Euclidean norm \|m\|^2=-\mathrm{det}(m)

The traceless anti-Hermitians form the well-known algebra su(2). su(2) happens to be equal to i\mathfrak E_3

Quaternions are the traceless anti-Hermitians and the real scalar matrices together, i.e, \mathbb H= su(2)\oplus \mathbb RI. It is a 4-dimensional (real) Euclidean space with Euclidean norm \|q\|^2=\mathrm{det}(q) Quaternions with determinant (norm) 1 form the group SU(2) (with the matrix multiplication as group operation) which is the double cover of the 3-dimensional rotation group, SO(3), i.e. SU(2) is a 3-sphere in the Euclidean space of quaternions.

The traceless Hermitians and the real scalar matrices together, i.e. \mathfrak E_3\oplus\mathbb RI form a Minkowski-space of signature (1,3) with pseudo-norm \|m\|^2= \mathrm{det}(m))

The traceless anti-Hermitians and the imaginary scalar matrices together su(2)\oplus i\mathbb RI form a Minkowski-space of signature (3,1) with pseudo-norm \|m\|^2= \mathrm{det}(m))

All 2\times 2 complex matrices with determinant 1 form the group SL(2,\mathbb C), i.e. SL(2,\mathbb C)\subseteq\mathbb H\oplus i\mathbb H. SL(2,\mathbb C) is the double cover of the restricted Lorentz group SO^+(3,1). This group consists of the proper orthocronous Lorentz transformations. So, complex multiples of quaternions contain a group that doubly covers the group of all restricted Lorentz transformations. But the other participants of the story are also interesting.
 
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  • #19
Vanadium 50 said:
Is there a single problem in SR that is easier to solve with quaternions?
I ask again.

Sure you can. You can also work entirely in Roman numerals. Doesn't make it a good idea.
 
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  • #20
grzz said:
Is it possible for somebody to send me p26 of the above book by J L Synge because this page in my copy is very faint.
Thanks
Here is p26.
 
  • #21
Here is p26
[/QUOTE]
A big THANK YOU to you too, mma.
 

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