Question about the formation of a massive star

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the formation of massive stars, specifically addressing the challenges and limitations associated with their formation processes, including the role of stellar winds and the maximum possible mass of stars. Participants explore theoretical aspects, observational evidence, and implications of stellar mass in the context of astrophysics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions how a star of 1,000,000 solar masses could form, given that stellar winds would clear away surrounding gas and dust before sufficient material could accumulate.
  • Another participant asserts that stars of 10^6 solar masses do not exist, suggesting that the maximum size is likely in the several hundred solar mass range.
  • A different viewpoint suggests that around 200 solar masses is believed to be the upper limit for star mass, influenced by the metallicity of the progenitor material, with early universe stars potentially being more massive due to lower metallicity.
  • One participant introduces the concept of the Eddington Limit as a limiting factor for maximum star mass, indicating that stellar winds play a crucial role in this limitation.
  • Another participant reflects on the visual representation of Betelgeuse compared to the Sun, initially overestimating its mass based on size comparisons, but later acknowledges that Betelgeuse's mass is about 20 times that of the Sun.
  • Further clarification is provided regarding Betelgeuse's volume compared to the Sun, noting that while it is significantly larger in volume, its mass is much less than what might be assumed from its size.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the maximum mass of stars and the implications of stellar winds on star formation. There is no consensus on the existence of stars with masses around 1,000,000 solar masses, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact limits of stellar mass.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the Eddington Limit and metallicity as factors influencing star formation, but there are unresolved assumptions regarding the conditions necessary for massive star formation and the definitions of stellar mass limits.

ldc3
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I have no problem with description of a small star's formation by gas and dust accretion.
The problem I have is with a massive star. When enough material has accumulated to start the fusion of the star, a stellar wind will start and will clear away the gas and dust nearby. A heavier star would produce a stronger stellar wind. Even with a high density nebula, I would think that there wouldn't be enough material accumulated before the fusion started pushing away the gas and dust.
So, how does a star of 1,000,000 solar masses form?
 
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There are no stars of 10^6 solar masses, and there probably never were. The maximum size star that's possible is probably in the several hundred solar mass range.
 
Something around 200 solar masses is believed to be about as big as any star can get and is affected by metallicity of its progenitor material, meaning stars in the very early universe tended to be more massive because the progenitor material was metal poor.
 
ldc3 said:
The problem I have is with a massive star. When enough material has accumulated to start the fusion of the star, a stellar wind will start and will clear away the gas and dust nearby.
That's basically the limiting factor to the maximum mass of stars. Its called the Eddington Limit.

Also see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddington_luminosity
 
OK so I overestimated the size of a massive star. It's just that when you see Betelgeuse pictured beside our sun (and it looks about 1000000 times larger, one assumes it has 1000000 times the mass as well.

"A radius of 5.5 AU is roughly 1,180 times the radius of the Sun—a sphere so huge that it could contain over 2 quadrillion Earths (2.15 × 10^15) or more than 1.6 billion (1.65 × 10^9) suns."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Betelgeuse
 
Note that the same article says that Betegeuse has about 20x the mass of the sun.
 
Idc3, now you got it right. The same Wikipedia article says "In volume, Betelgeuse exceeds the Sun by a factor of about 1.6 billion. Yet the actual mass of the star is believed to be no more than 18 to 19 Suns".
 

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