Question on Bohmian Intepretation

  • Context: Graduate 
  • Thread starter Thread starter JK423
  • Start date Start date
Click For Summary

Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the Bohmian interpretation (B.I) of quantum mechanics, particularly in relation to the uncertainty principle and virtual particle creation. Participants explore whether B.I. necessitates the acceptance of fundamental probabilities to explain virtual particles, and how it interprets the uncertainty relation ΔΕ Δτ~hbar.

Discussion Character

  • Debate/contested
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants argue that the Bohmian interpretation does not need to accept fundamental probabilities to explain virtual particle creation.
  • Others assert that the uncertainty principle is unrelated to virtual particle creation, emphasizing that virtual particles are a concept from quantum field theory, while the uncertainty principle applies to nonrelativistic quantum mechanics.
  • One participant mentions that virtual particles "borrow" energy and have a lifetime related to the uncertainty relation, questioning the deterministic nature of their creation.
  • Another participant counters that virtual particles are not real and thus cannot be described by any interpretation, including Bohmian, in a deterministic or probabilistic manner.
  • There is a suggestion that the Bohmian interpretation could, in principle, describe virtual particle creation deterministically if initial conditions were known.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the relationship between the uncertainty principle and virtual particle creation, with no consensus reached on whether B.I. can adequately describe virtual particles or if it must accept fundamental probabilities.

Contextual Notes

Some claims about virtual particles and their relation to the uncertainty principle are challenged, indicating a lack of agreement on the interpretations and implications of these concepts within the context of the discussion.

JK423
Gold Member
Messages
394
Reaction score
7
One of the weird stuff in the Copenhagen interpretation are foundamental probabilities, which are not due to our lack of knowledge about the system.
However the Bohmian interpretation argues the opposite but we still don't know which one is correct (if any). Also, the B.I interprets differently the Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle such as ΔΕ Δτ~hbar.
Can someone tell me how this relation is interpreted in BI?
(Cause i want to see if its compatible with virtual particle creation..)
My basic question is about whether B.I. is forced to "accept" fundamental probabilities in order to explain the virtual particle creation..


Thanks in advance!
JK
 
Last edited:
Physics news on Phys.org
The uncertainty principle has nothing to do with virtual particle creation, neither in Copenhagen nor in Bohmian interpretation.
More precisely, virtual particle creation makes sense only in quantum fields theory, while the uncertainty principle exists in nonrelativistic quantum mechanics of fixed number of particles as well.

More on the uncertainty principle, virtual particles, Bohmian interpretation and other related and unrelated stuff can be found in
http://xxx.lanl.gov/abs/quant-ph/0609163 [Found.Phys.37:1563-1611,2007]
 
Last edited:
JK423 said:
My basic question is about whether B.I. is forced to "accept" fundamental probabilities in order to explain the virtual particle creation..
It is not. In fact, probabilities have not much to do with virtual particle creation. Quantum theory does not give the probability that a virtual pair will be created. It gives the probability that REAL particles will be created.
 
Demystifier said:
The uncertainty principle has nothing to do with virtual particle creation, neither in Copenhagen nor in Bohmian interpretation.
What i know about virtual particle`s creation is the following:
Virtual particle owes its existence to the uncertainty relation ΔΕ*Δt~hbar.
It "borrows" energy ΔΕ and has a lifetime Δt~hbar/ΔE. Isn`t that correct?
(At least that's what we are taught in 3rd year @ university)

I agree that we don't assign probabilities to virtual particle creation, but we know that the latter is not deterministic! We can't predict when its going to be created. But what i want to emphasize is that its not a deterministic process as far as we know. Shouldn`t the Bohmian intepretation be able -in principle- to describe virtual particle creation in a deterministic manner (with hidden variables ofcourse). e.g. to be able to tell us when a virtual particle would be created if we knew some initial condition.

Thanks a lot for the paper, I am going to read it.
 
JK423 said:
What i know about virtual particle`s creation is the following:
Virtual particle owes its existence to the uncertainty relation ΔΕ*Δt~hbar.
It "borrows" energy ΔΕ and has a lifetime Δt~hbar/ΔE. Isn`t that correct?
(At least that's what we are taught in 3rd year @ university)
It is often explained so in popular books, but it is not really correct.

JK423 said:
I agree that we don't assign probabilities to virtual particle creation, but we know that the latter is not deterministic! We can't predict when its going to be created. But what i want to emphasize is that its not a deterministic process as far as we know. Shouldn`t the Bohmian intepretation be able -in principle- to describe virtual particle creation in a deterministic manner (with hidden variables ofcourse). e.g. to be able to tell us when a virtual particle would be created if we knew some initial condition.
First of all, virtual particle creation is - NOT REAL. They are not really created. Therefore, the Bohmian interpretation, or any other interpretation, does not describe virtual particle creation, neither in a deterministic nor in a probabilistic manner. Please, read Sec. 9.3 of the paper I mentioned above!
 

Similar threads

  • · Replies 376 ·
13
Replies
376
Views
25K
  • · Replies 13 ·
Replies
13
Views
3K
  • · Replies 2 ·
Replies
2
Views
2K
  • · Replies 21 ·
Replies
21
Views
4K
  • · Replies 76 ·
3
Replies
76
Views
7K
  • · Replies 12 ·
Replies
12
Views
2K
  • · Replies 190 ·
7
Replies
190
Views
18K
  • · Replies 162 ·
6
Replies
162
Views
25K
  • · Replies 9 ·
Replies
9
Views
3K
  • · Replies 36 ·
2
Replies
36
Views
8K