Question on gravitational lensing

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the examination of the spectrum of gravitationally lensed light, specifically whether variations in red or blue shifts have been observed in the light from different parts of an Einstein ring. Participants explore the implications of gravitational lensing and potential effects of frame dragging around rotating massive objects.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Rudi Van Nieuwenhove questions whether variations in red shifts have been observed in gravitationally lensed light, particularly in the context of an Einstein ring.
  • Some participants clarify that gravitational deflection of light, according to general relativity, does not affect the frequency of light.
  • There is a suggestion that strong frame dragging effects around rotating galaxies or black holes could potentially lead to frequency shifts, although this remains uncertain.
  • Participants express confusion about the implications of Rudi's question regarding the effects of frame dragging on observed lensed light.
  • A reference to Chandrasekhar's work on black holes is mentioned as a source for further exploration of the topic.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that light bending does not depend on frequency according to general relativity, but there is no consensus on the potential effects of frame dragging or whether such effects could lead to observable frequency shifts in lensed light.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of gravitational lensing and the potential influence of additional factors like frame dragging, which may not be fully resolved within the current conversation.

notknowing
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I was wondering whether one has examined the spectrum of gravitational lensed light (nice description on wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_lensing ). Have there been indications on some red or blue shifts in the light from different parts of the observed ring? Does anyone know?

Rudi Van Nieuwenhove
 
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notknowing said:
I was wondering whether one has examined the spectrum of gravitational lensed light (nice description on wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gravitational_lensing ). Have there been indications on some red or blue shifts in the light from different parts of the observed ring? Does anyone know?

Rudi Van Nieuwenhove

I realized that I should have been more specific. What I meant is "has one observed variations in red shifts in the light from different parts of the ring ?"
 
Are you talking about an Einstein ring? (There are a few examples of almost perfect Einstein rings which have been observed.) What kind of variations do you have in mind?
 
As far as I know, the gravitational deflection of light should not affect light's frequency. If there are experiments showing the opposite I would be interested to get the reference.

Eugene.
 
Well, in gtr, light bending certainly does not depend on frequency (in the geometrical optics approximation), but it's not clear to me what he has in mind.
 
Chris Hillman said:
Well, in gtr, light bending certainly does not depend on frequency (in the geometrical optics approximation), but it's not clear to me what he has in mind.

Sorry for the late reply (have been sick). I was just wondering whether some strong kind of space-dragging effects around rotating galaxies or rotating black holes could possibly lead to a shift in frequency. Or would it only lead to a time difference ?
 
Straightening out Light-bending (Mk1:3)

Rudi, sorry, but I don't yet understand your question. Did you take the point (already mentioned by meopemuk) that according to gtr, "light bending" (e.g. in "gravitational lensing") does not depend on the frequency of the light being bent?
 
Last edited:
Chris Hillman said:
Rudi, sorry, but I don't yet understand your question. Did you take the point (already mentioned by meopemuk) that according to gtr, "light bending" (e.g. in "gravitational lensing") does not depend on the frequency of the light being bent?

Yes, I know that light bending as such does not depend on the frequency of the light. The question is what happens in case of strong frame dragging effects, so in which the galaxy or black hole has a very large mass and high angular momentum. What would happen if we observe lensed light (from stars far beyond this large rotating mass) in this case? At one side, the light would encounter a "space rotation" in the same direction as the propagating light and at the other side the "space rotation" would be in the other direction. How would this show up in the observed light. I know the effects are small, but I'm just wondering about the physical effect.

Rudi Van Nieuwenhove
 
This is discussed extensively in Chandrasekhar, Mathematical Theory of Black Holes.
 

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