Question on Smolin's theory on Black Holes and new Universes

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers on Lee Smolin's theory that black holes may lead to the creation of new universes, exploring its mainstream acceptance and comparison with other cosmological theories such as branes, string theory, and wormholes. Participants examine the implications of Smolin's ideas, the concept of cosmic natural selection, and the potential for black holes to act as gateways to other universes.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Debate/contested
  • Technical explanation

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants note that Smolin's theory suggests that universes capable of forming black holes can spawn new universes, raising questions about its mainstream acceptance.
  • One participant humorously compares the mainstream status of Smolin's theory to a fictional scenario, indicating skepticism about its likelihood.
  • Another participant discusses the concept of fitness landscapes and how they relate to Smolin's ideas, emphasizing that his theory is distinct from other mainstream ideas about gravitational collapse.
  • There is mention of Smolin's predictions regarding neutron star mass, with some participants arguing that these predictions have been challenged by subsequent discoveries.
  • Participants explore the idea that black hole collapse might lead to new spacetime regions, a concept that is considered by some to be a mainstream idea, but they distinguish it from Smolin's specific proposal regarding evolving physical constants.
  • One participant expresses interest in how speculative theories are rated or accepted among cosmologists, suggesting a desire for a system to gauge the seriousness of various theories.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants exhibit a range of views on the acceptance and viability of Smolin's theory. While some find it an interesting possibility, others express skepticism about its mainstream status. The discussion reflects multiple competing perspectives on the implications of black holes and the nature of cosmological theories.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference various theoretical frameworks and predictions, highlighting the complexity and uncertainty surrounding the implications of black holes and the evolution of physical constants. There are unresolved questions regarding the validity of Smolin's predictions and the broader acceptance of his theories in the cosmological community.

  • #31
As far as I know a state of true nothingness is the only state which does not require a first cause. For all other concepts I can ask, well what caused that? The next question is, how can we go from a state of true nothingness to any other state, because this step is infinite?

Seasons greetings all.
 
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  • #32
Tanelorn said:
As far as I know a state of true nothingness is the only state which does not require a first cause. For all other concepts I can ask, well what caused that? The next question is, how can we go from a state of true nothingness to any other state, because this step is infinite?

Seasons greetings all.

... Maybe the underlying layer of causation/locality could be relational and transformative. OTH. I could treat nothingness as infinity's evil twin.

I like the simpler version that marcus stated. "I think, is to learn of the changes it seems to have undergone.."
 
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  • #34
Good question! Black hole evaporation would be another issue. Does causal disconnection insulate 'baby' universes from the fate of 'mommy'? Such questions wander beyond my comfort zone. I view it as a backdoor 'multiverse' version of reality.
 
  • #35
Tanelorn said:
I wonder what would happen in a Smolin black hole Universe model when two black holes merge?

As I understand the model, from the point of view of any event in the baby universe, events in the "spawning" universe are all in the past. That includes the events involved in a black hole merger. From the viewpoint of the baby universe, the "singularity" inside the black hole that spawned it is still one singularity--one spacelike hypersurface that marks the past boundary of the baby universe. The only difference if that black hole merges with another one is that the event horizon surrounding that singularity, in the "spawning" universe, is shaped like a pair of trousers instead of a cylinder (if we imagine a space-time diagram in which time is vertical and we suppress one spatial dimension so the cross section of the event horizon is a circle instead of a 2-sphere). But all that is in the past of the baby universe.
 
  • #36
Chronos said:
Does causal disconnection insulate 'baby' universes from the fate of 'mommy'?

As I understand the model, yes; the baby universe, like any event inside the event horizon of the black hole that spawned it, is causally disconnected from events in the exterior region in the original universe, including "heat death" or anything else. The only caveat to this that I'm aware of is that the "baby universe" model, AFAIK, doesn't work if the original universe recollapses in a Big Crunch, because in that scenario there are no true event horizons in the original universe; every timelike or null path ends up in the Big Crunch singularity, so there is no "room" for baby universes to spawn, so to speak. But this is getting outside of my comfort zone too; I don't know what other kinds of speculative models have been considered, so there may be some that get around this somehow.
 

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