Question regarding atomic weight percentage, and concentration

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the calculation of atomic weight percentages and concentrations in the context of hydrogen diffusion in a palladium (Pd) sheet. Participants explore the implications of concentration gradients and the appropriate methods for determining concentrations based on atomic percentages.

Discussion Character

  • Technical explanation
  • Mathematical reasoning
  • Conceptual clarification

Main Points Raised

  • One participant questions the method of calculating hydrogen concentration by multiplying the concentration of Pd by atomic weight percentages, suggesting that the total concentration of both hydrogen and Pd should be considered.
  • Another participant seeks clarification on what is meant by "concentration of what in what and where," indicating a need for specificity regarding the surface layer and the context of the concentration gradient.
  • A participant confirms their understanding of the approximation that can be used when one component (B) is significantly larger than the other (A), asking for a rule of thumb regarding what constitutes B being much greater than A.
  • Further discussion notes that the acceptable level of approximation depends on the application, with some suggesting that less than 1% of A can be treated as negligible in certain contexts.
  • Mathematical expressions are provided to illustrate the approximation method, emphasizing that for small values, the first few terms of the series expansion can yield sufficient accuracy.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express differing views on the method of calculating concentrations and the conditions under which approximations can be applied. There is no consensus on a definitive approach, and the discussion remains unresolved regarding the best method to use.

Contextual Notes

Limitations include the need for clarity on the definitions of terms such as "surface layer" and the specific conditions under which the approximations hold true. The discussion does not resolve the mathematical steps involved in the calculations.

sandy.bridge
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One of the examples I was looking at had to do with diffusion of hydrogen in a Pb sheet. There is a constant concentration gradient applied, so the hydrogen is constantly diffusing. We are able to determine the concentration of the Pd matrix. We further know the atomic weight percentages of the hydrogen at either end of the concentration gradients. Let's say 1 at. % at one end, and 0.2 at. % at the other. To determine the concentration of hydrogen, he merely multiplied the concentration of Pd by the percentages (0.01, 0.002). Is this correct? I though you would have to multiply TOTAL concentration of both hydrogen and Pd atoms?

The atomic percentage of atom A is number of A atoms/(number of A atoms + number of B atoms)??
 
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Concentration of what in what and where? There is a concentration gradient, so I suppose you are talking about concentration of hydrogen in "surface layer" (whatever it exactly means)?

Perhaps what you are looking for is this: if B>>A then A/(A+B)≈A/B.
 
That is exactly what I was looking for, and I figured it was the case. Is there a rule of thumb as to what constitutes B>>A?
 
It depends on the application. Sometimes 5% accuracy is enough, sometimes not. But if B is less than 1% of A I would have no problems with using it.

You can always estimate if it makes sense to use this approximation remembering that

[tex]\frac a {a+b} = \frac a b - \frac {a^2} {b^2} + \frac {a^3} {b^3} - \frac {a^4} {b^4}\dots[/tex]

(for a close to zero). Note that

[tex]\frac {0.01} {1+0.01} = 0.0099(0099)[/tex]

and

[tex]\frac {0.01} {1} - \frac {0.01^2}{1^2} = 0.0099[/tex]

so given accuracy of most numbers we are dealing with, we are already good after the first two terms.
 

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