Question regarding Sun's Rays

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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the historical calculations of the Earth's circumference and the misconceptions surrounding them, particularly focusing on Eratosthenes' work and the understanding of the Earth's shape during different historical periods. The conversation touches on the accuracy of sun rays falling at 90 degrees in specific locations and the broader implications of these historical beliefs.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • One participant recalls learning about Archimedes' attempt to calculate the Earth's radius and questions the accuracy of sun rays falling at 90 degrees in Syracuse during the summer solstice.
  • Another participant asserts that due to the Earth's tilt of 23.5 degrees, sun rays do not fall at 90 degrees in Syracuse, which is located at 43 degrees north latitude.
  • A correction is made regarding the historical figure, stating it was Eratosthenes, not Archimedes, who made the calculations, and that the location was Aswan, Egypt, not Syracuse.
  • A participant acknowledges the correction and elaborates on Eratosthenes' method of measuring shadows to calculate the Earth's diameter and axial tilt.
  • References are made to the original Cosmos series, suggesting it discusses Eratosthenes' experiment, though the exact episode is uncertain.
  • Another participant discusses the common misconception about Christopher Columbus' beliefs regarding the Earth's shape, noting that Eratosthenes had already established its roundness over a thousand years earlier.
  • A further comment reflects on historical beliefs about the Earth's age, drawing parallels to contemporary misconceptions despite scientific evidence.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree on the historical significance of Eratosthenes' calculations, but there are disagreements regarding the specifics of sun rays falling at 90 degrees in Syracuse and the accuracy of historical narratives about Columbus and the Earth's shape.

Contextual Notes

There are unresolved assumptions regarding the geographical accuracy of sun angles and the historical context of beliefs about the Earth's shape and age.

SiriusA
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Well I just took a introductory course in physics at Udacity.com a while back . In that , I learned about Archimedes attempt at calculating the radius of Earth . According to that , at a place near Syracuse , Greek , the sun rays fall at 90 degrees on the summer solstice . Just wanted if you guys could confirm that fact , because that is the basis for an idea of mine .
 
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The tilt of the Earth is only 23.5 degrees. At 43 degrees north in latitude, rays from the Sun never fall on Syracuse at 90 degrees.
 
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Yeah jtbell , you are 100 % correct , sorry for my "weak" memory though I am only 14 :) . I was just about to correct that :
"A Greek named Erasthothanes noticed this phenomenon in 250 BCE at Aswan, Egypt. He’d previously measured the length of his small solstice shadow in Alexandria, and he used those data points—the length of his shadow at Alexandria, the length (0) of his shadow at Aswan, and the distance between the two—to calculate both the diameter of the Earth and the tilt of the planet’s axis."
 
Watch the original Cosmos series and Sagan talks about that experiment by Erasthothanes. I *think* it was in the first episode, but I could be mistaken.
 
SiriusA said:
Yeah jtbell , you are 100 % correct , sorry for my "weak" memory though I am only 14 :) . I was just about to correct that :
"A Greek named Erasthothanes noticed this phenomenon in 250 BCE at Aswan, Egypt. He’d previously measured the length of his small solstice shadow in Alexandria, and he used those data points—the length of his shadow at Alexandria, the length (0) of his shadow at Aswan, and the distance between the two—to calculate both the diameter of the Earth and the tilt of the planet’s axis."

Yeah, you need to realize that some of us were there at the time. :)
 
By the way, many of us learned in elementary school, and I am sure it is still taught, that Christopher Columbus, unlike everyone else at the time, believed that the Earth was round, not flat, and that you could reach the orient by traveling west.

In fact, Eratosthenes, over a thousand years earlier, not only knew that the Earth was round but had calculated its diameter! Where Columbus differed from most people was that he was a member of a small group of people who believed that Eratosthenes' result was too large- on purely "stylistic" reasons. They just didn't believe that the Earth was almost all land (Europe, Asia, Africa) on one side and empty ocean on the other! Of course, they, and Columbus, were wrong.
 
It is worth while remembering, when considering how 'wrong' they were in the fairly distant past, that there are still many people who believe that the Earth is only four thousand years old DESPITE the vast amount of contrary evidence.
 

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