Questioning Death: Experiences and Thoughts

[Chi Meson]

I imagine that sometime during late gestation you develop some sort of consciousness (it can't just erupt out of nowhere when you hit open air), but you can't actually remember something that happened before that. In fact, someone working in a relevant field has said that no adult can remember anything that happened before the age of 2 or so. I've tried, and can't. Of course, I frequently can't remember things that happened yesterday.

I absolutely and positively have memories of when I was 18 months old (picking up pine cone and collecting them in an empty "All" detergent carton, to be specific). THe only reason why I remember them now, is because I remembered this event when I was three and this schocked my mother (that I remembered it). From that point on I remember the occasion of that memory,( so maybe it's a "clone" of the first memory?) and can today still picture that and other events from before my second birthday.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I think it's just that alergy feeling of spring or it might be something else that's getting me down. I've been perticularly thinking about the topic of death alot.

More important than the topic of death is "What's up with people, lately?" I can sense this depression thing going aound, I've felt it too, but don't really know what to point to.

Only thing that comes to mind, speculatively, is that I read that post traumatic stress syndrome takes about four years to kick in. 911 is almost four years ago now. That's one idea I had. The other is the one mentioned by Ivan in another thread; that there was a big burst of cosmic radiation from the sun this past friday. Maybe that has some unknown effect on people's neurotransmitters.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I absolutely and positively have memories of when I was 18 months old.

Same here. I vividly remember my older sister taking me out to the driveway where my parents were unloading something from the car. My sister said, "Look in there!" referring to a basinette, "That's your new sister!" Inside the basinette was a sort of pinched faced, very red, kind of space alien thingy, that was squirming in discomfort with its eyes squeezed shut. Today, though, she's my favorite sister.

 

[Danger]

I absolutely and positively have memories of when I was 18 months old

Not doubting that. The 2-year figure is a rough average. I remember things from early in my 2nd year, but it's hard to gauge how accurate the memories are. I know that the specific events happened, but I'm probably filling in details based upon later reminders of them.

More important than the topic of death is "What's up with people, lately?"

There's also 'seasonal affective disorder'. It's never affected me, but I know some people who go all squirrelly come spring or winter. Transitions from spring to summer and from summer to fall don't seem to do much.

Today, though, she's my favorite sister.

I assume that her looks have improved?

 

[Monique]

My vision started turning very white and I started worrying. I dismissed myself and went to the bathroom.

next time warn someone, you don't want to pass out and be lying alone on the bathroom floor.

 

[Artman]

In fact, someone working in a relevant field has said that no adult can remember anything that happened before the age of 2 or so.

I remember something that happened when I was 6 months old. I described my account to my older sister and she told me my age at the time. I also remember an event when I was 1 year old: my first ice cream cone, I can picture the place (no longer there) and the man who gave it to me (not my father, a friend of his who owned the restuarant), but then again , not many people consider me very "adult."

 

[Danger]

I remember something that happened when I was 6 months old.
...but then again , not many people consider me very "adult."

Well, we've always known that you're a mutant.

Actually, I was semi-serious about that. I'm wondering if any particular sort of brain wiring determines the memory cut-off age. Most people in this forum are way above average intelligence, and probably employ lateral thinking and analytical tracking rather than 'normal' processes. That might give freer access to things that most people block out.

 

[Artman]

Most people in this forum are way above average intelligence, and probably employ lateral thinking and analytical tracking rather than 'normal' processes. That might give freer access to things that most people block out.

Okay, so how does that apply to me?

Well, we've always known that you're a mutant.

Oh, I guess this covers me.

 

[Moonbear]

Well, we've always known that you're a mutant.

Actually, I was semi-serious about that. I'm wondering if any particular sort of brain wiring determines the memory cut-off age. Most people in this forum are way above average intelligence, and probably employ lateral thinking and analytical tracking rather than 'normal' processes. That might give freer access to things that most people block out.

It's not so much blocking out memories as the relevant brain structures just aren't developed well enough for them to form properly yet. That 2-year "cut-off" would be more an average. There are always variations, a kid who develops a little earlier or one who develops a little later. So, it's not surprising to me to run into someone who might recall very early memories, especially as Artman describes them as fragments of events, just as I wouldn't be surprised to run into someone who says they really can't remember anything that happened before they were 5...and for those who were in college in the 60s and 70s, they might have forgotten a good many things that happened before they were 20.

 

[BicycleTree]

I believe that all physical systems are conscious. The universe is evolving towards a state of maximum entropy--maximum spiritual peace. Humans are just a curiosity whose time will and should come, to allow that peace to happen.

I have led a suburban life, but nevertheless I have been near death many times. When I was 8 I got lost in mountains in Newfoundland, about a half mile up, and climbed down a very tall cliff beside a waterfall to get back. I used to go "rock-hopping" between boulders twenty or thirty feet above the ground when camping with my family. I have had numerous bicycle and/or traffic related incidents that could have resulted in death; in one of them I landed on the pavement, on my head, at about 15 mph.

I'm not very afraid of death.

 

[neurocomp2003]

I think I'm more afraid of hurting others when I die then actually death itself.

 

[1123581321]

if you really think about it, we simply will not know what happens after we die. I would hope that it really dosn't end, because the thought of a complete end with no second chance is creepy to think about. There have been people who have had near death experience, and most of them seem to be similar. i guess we will find out sometime. all i know is that that i don't want to be frozen. think of it, it would be like a thousand cold showers when (if) they wake you up.

 

[stoned]

I don't want anyone of you to die or anything, but can we make some experiment? if you die can you post something on this board, anything Okay ?

 

[Danger]

I don't want anyone of you to die or anything, but can we make some experiment? if you die can you post something on this board, anything Okay ?

I promise that if I can, I'll come back as a virus and leave peanut butter in your hard drive.

 

[Jason]

A tour of Nothingness

Originally posted by Evo
Nothingness is probably the best option because if there is nothing after death, you won't know, so you won't care.

I must say, I take Evo's side; I really thought that you nailed it dead on straight about NOTHINGNESS.

However, Pascal, in his brilliant "Parri" (Wager) argued that even if God didn't exist, one ought to act as if God did. For, in the bet, if God exists, then at the end of one's life, one goes to heaven; if on the other hand, God doesn't exist, it would be best for humanity to carry on as if God did, if but to make the secular world a better place for all. Thus, God wins, and so does God's rule, even if God is a chimeria; Man is the winner either way.

Nothingness after death will come to those godless souls who truly believe it.

"todo lo que se mueva es calne y calne es placer"

 

[JaKeTh]

I am not afraid of death.
Death is the amazing transformation from our physical bodies into essencially the "next dimension".
If you believe..."For every action, there is a equal and opposite reaction".
What does that mean for the experation of our physical bodies that are charged with electricity?


The subject of death and the events afterwards are highly debatable.
Afterlife? Nothing? What essencially happens?

We do not know.
Naturally, humans tend to fear the unknown.
Should that mean we fear death?

Let your curiosity guide you.

 

[Astronuc]

Death is the amazing transformation from our physical bodies into essencially the "next dimension".

And this comes from personal experience?

Besides I have to be somewhere April 30, 2055.

Why, is there a party somewhere? Haley's comet coming back again?

Well, Evo spilled the beans. I have to work on my subtlety skills.

So, Evo, save the first and last dance for me. Only problem - I am a lousy dancer - besides the fact that in 50 yrs I'll probably be a wreck.

 

[Astronuc]

More important than the topic of death is "What's up with people, lately?" I can sense this depression thing going aound, I've felt it too, but don't really know what to point to.

Only thing that comes to mind, speculatively, is that I read that post traumatic stress syndrome takes about four years to kick in. 911 is almost four years ago now. That's one idea I had. The other is the one mentioned by Ivan in another thread; that there was a big burst of cosmic radiation from the sun this past friday. Maybe that has some unknown effect on people's neurotransmitters.

I think there is some depression, but I think many people feel overwhelmed by current events in the world (e.g. Iraq, Afghanistan, etc) on top of personal events.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I think there is some depression, but I think many people feel overwhelmed by current events in the world (e.g. Iraq, Afghanistan, etc) on top of personal events.

There just seem to be a more than usual number of threads about loneliness, getting old, tragedy, and now death. I'm not sure if it is just PF or the same thing's going on in the world at large for reason's I can't discern.

 

[Dr.Brain]

I am not afraid of death...because it will give some other baby some air to breathe on my part in this ever growing population.

 

[Astronuc]

There just seem to be a more than usual number of threads about loneliness, getting old, tragedy, and now death.

I don't think it necessarily more than usual. These are some of life's big issues, and someone is having to deal with one or more of these issues now and then.

On the other hand, we are coming to the end of an academic year, the focus on school and the pressure subsides momentarily, and one begins to wonder, what is it all about. Students may think - Why am I studying (fill in the blank)?

It is good that people can bring up such issues, and that others are willing to respond in a positive and supportive manner. Human beings are social creatures afterall.

 

[Grogs]

I think if anything about death really scares me, it's thoughts of how those left behind would be affected. How much would my parents grieve? Who would take care of them when they're old(er)? Who would take care of my pets? Beyond that, I have a much greater fear of terrible injury (becoming a quadrapalegic) than death.

I used to skydive and I remember being *terrified* before my first few jumps. At some point, I started asking myself if I was willing to accept the fact I could die on this jump. When I decided the answer was 'yes' the fear went away and never came back. From talking to other people in the sport, I have learned that almost everyone goes through a similar experience.

The ironic thing is that, on any particular skydive, you have a smaller chance of dying than you do driving to work for a year. It's just that it's just such an 'in your face' experience, it's hard not to notice possible impending death rising up to meet you at 120 mph. I try to put that same philosophy into more mundane activities of my daily life.

 

[Evo]

So, Evo, save the first and last dance for me. Only problem - I am a lousy dancer - besides the fact that in 50 yrs I'll probably be a wreck.

Just being alive at that age will be enough reason to party, being able to dance may be stretching it.

 

[Danger]

Just being alive at that age will be enough reason to party, being able to dance may be stretching it.

Okay, Astro, get to work! We need an anti-gravity dance floor within the next 50 years.

 

[Ivan Seeking]

About the most time that I've had to think about dying during an event was during an aborted take-off from San Francisco. Frankly, since I didn't think we could abort so late in the process, I [and everyone else] was thinking the worst.

The front wheels had already left the ground but then came slamming down with sudden, heavy braking, and at some point soon thereafter, reverse thrusters. Then we had a good thirty seconds of wide eyes and bated breath before the plane slowed enough that we began to relax. We all thought that a collision was imminent. But what surprised me is that while sitting there and looking around and expecting the crash, I not only assumed the crash position automatically, I also felt remarkably relaxed and calm; ready for whatever was about to happen. It turned out that a window had popped open in the flight cabin.

I have had a number of other close calls, but less one other, never really any time to consider what was happening.

 

[klusener]

The one and only God exists in various forms: if the ocean stands for God we have in contrast the pond, the well and the little quantity of water contained in a spoon and soon that stand for diverse living beings. The water in all is the same. If you go to the base, the ground or root, you will discover that they are the same. If we go to the root we will become one with the root. This is liberation according to Advaita. Merely to talk about non-dualistic liberation is nothing more than an Intellectual exercise and will serve no purpose. The truth of such liberation must become an inward reality. In other words the quest must culminate in actual experience and it can be had only with the grace of God.

These are hindu beliefs shared by Buddhists also, every time anything troubles me, just reading such things gives me the motivation to go on... There can be no fear of death if you truly live life.

 

[Anubis]

I think if anything about death really scares me, it's thoughts of how those left behind would be affected. How much would my parents grieve? Who would take care of them when they're old(er)? Who would take care of my pets? Beyond that, I have a much greater fear of terrible injury (becoming a quadrapalegic) than death.

I used to skydive and I remember being *terrified* before my first few jumps. At some point, I started asking myself if I was willing to accept the fact I could die on this jump. When I decided the answer was 'yes' the fear went away and never came back. From talking to other people in the sport, I have learned that almost everyone goes through a similar experience.

The ironic thing is that, on any particular skydive, you have a smaller chance of dying than you do driving to work for a year. It's just that it's just such an 'in your face' experience, it's hard not to notice possible impending death rising up to meet you at 120 mph. I try to put that same philosophy into more mundane activities of my daily life.

I think I need those adrenaline to make my fear of death lighter.

On the other note, I highly respect soldiers and other professions where you can meet death at any given time. I wonder what must go through their minds when facing impending death

 

[BicycleTree]

Well, I don't believe there is "nothingness" after you die. The world goes on, and all that happened is that one part of it became less structured.

But how do you know what is in the next moment from now? It won't be exactly the same you in the next moment. Or in the previous moment. Or outside your head. Why assume continuity of experience? All consciousness can be seen as a collection of unchanging states of mind, and any perceived connection between one state of mind and another (e.g. between two close-together states within a person's brain) is only a manmade device with no greater reality.

Another thing: why worry about death--something far ahead of you in time--when only a few inches from you in space, there appears to be the same "nothingness" (if you subscribe to that philosophy that the absence of human consciousness is the absence of all consciousness)?

 

[learningphysics]

I find the idea of annihilation very comforting (nothing happens after death... hence nothing bad happens after death). It is the possibility of reincarnation that scares me.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I Have a Rendezvous with Death

I HAVE a rendezvous with Death
At some disputed barricade,
When Spring comes back with rustling shade
And apple-blossoms fill the air—
I have a rendezvous with Death,
When Spring brings back blue days and fair.

It may be he shall take my hand,
And lead me into his dark land
And close my eyes and quench my breath,
It may be I shall pass him still.
I have a rendezvous with Death
On some scarred slope of battered hill,
When Spring comes round again this year
And the first meadow-flowers appear.

God knows 'twere better to be deep
Pillowed in silk and scented down,
Where love throbs out in blissful sleep,
Pulse nigh to pulse, and breath to breath,
Where hushed awakenings are dear
But I've a rendezvous with Death
At midnight in some flaming town,
When Spring trips north again this year,
And I to my pledged word am true,
I shall not fail that rendezvous.


by Alan Seeger


This was John Fitzgerald Kennedy's favorite poem