Questions about a System in Equilibrium

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    Equilibrium System
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Discussion Overview

The discussion revolves around the behavior of a system in equilibrium, specifically focusing on the fluctuations in the number of particles and energy within an open system (denoted as A) that is in contact with a reservoir (A'). The participants explore the implications of these fluctuations on the system's properties, including temperature and chemical potential, within the context of statistical mechanics.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Technical explanation
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested

Main Points Raised

  • Some participants suggest that the fluctuations in the number of particles and energy in system A are due to random motion and interactions with the reservoir A', even when the system is at equilibrium.
  • It is noted that while temperature and chemical potential are fixed at equilibrium, energy and particle number can still vary, which is characteristic of the grand canonical ensemble.
  • One participant questions how temperature can remain constant if the number of particles and energy in system A are changing.
  • Another participant proposes that fluctuations in the number of particles and their kinetic energy could lead to temporary changes in temperature, but these would average out over time.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants generally agree that fluctuations occur in an open system at equilibrium, but there is some debate regarding the implications of these fluctuations on temperature. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the exact relationship between fluctuations and temperature stability.

Contextual Notes

The discussion highlights the complexity of systems in equilibrium, particularly in terms of how fluctuations can affect various properties. There is an acknowledgment of the dependence on the definitions and assumptions related to the grand canonical ensemble.

Kashmir
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Pathria, Statistical mechanics, pg 93

"We consider the given system ##A## as immersed in a large reservoir ##A'##, with which it can exchange both energy and particles. After some time has elapsed, the system and the reservoir are supposed to attain a state of mutual equilibrium. Then, according to Section 1.3, the system and the reservoir will have a common temperature ##T## and a common chemical potential ##\mu##. The fraction of the total number of particles ##\mathrm{N^0}## and the fraction of the total energy ##E^{\text {o }}## that the system A can have at any time ##t## are, however variables..."

Why does author say "The fraction of the total number of particles ##\mathrm{N^0}## and the fraction of the total energy ##E^{\text {o }}## that the system A can have at any time ##t## are, however variables...". Since A is at equilibrium then total number of particles and energy of A shouldn't change but author says otherwise.

Why is it so?

Moderator's note: Latex edited. Please use ## ## as delimiters for inline latex.
 
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Kashmir said:
Since A is at equilibrium then total number of particles and energy of A shouldn't change but author says otherwise.

Why is it so?
Maybe this is a reference to random fluctuations.

For example, suppose the systems are gaseous. There will be continual fluctuations in the distribution of particles and energy between A and A' due to the random particle motion. (The time-averages of the various quantities will be constant though.)

Imagine A is a very small system. The fractional variations of the number of particles and energy in A could then be large.

Just a guess though.
 
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Kashmir said:
Since A is at equilibrium then total number of particles and energy of A shouldn't change but author says otherwise.
##A## represents an open system, so it can exchange both energy and particles with ##A'##. Only the temperature and chemical potential are fixed at equilibrium. As @Steve4Physics wrote, the energy and the number of particles will fluctuate. This is characteristic of the grand canonical ensemble.
 
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DrClaude said:
##A## represents an open system, so it can exchange both energy and particles with ##A'##. Only the temperature and chemical potential are fixed at equilibrium. As @Steve4Physics wrote, the energy and the number of particles will fluctuate. This is characteristic of the grand canonical ensemble.
if number of particles and energy of system A changes why won't it's temperature change?
 
Kashmir said:
if number of particles and energy of system A changes why won't it's temperature change?
It will!

For example, imagine A and A' are filled with an ideal gas. At equilibrium there will still be fluctuations in the number of particles in A, and their mean-square speed (hence their average kinetic energy and hence the temperature of A).

For a short time the temperature of A might rise/fall - and the temperature of A' would fall/rise (by a lesser amount due to A' having a larger size).
 

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