Questions about the fundamental thoerem of calculus

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Discussion Overview

The discussion centers around the Fundamental Theorem of Calculus (FTC), exploring its implications, historical context, and participants' perceptions of its significance and intuitiveness. The conversation includes reflections on the learning process in calculus, comparisons to other mathematical concepts, and inquiries into the historical development of calculus.

Discussion Character

  • Exploratory
  • Conceptual clarification
  • Debate/contested
  • Historical

Main Points Raised

  • One participant expresses disappointment in the FTC, feeling it lacks the anticipated depth and significance after learning about derivatives and integrals.
  • Another participant challenges the notion that the FTC is obvious, noting that integration is often defined independently of differentiation in introductory courses.
  • Some participants highlight the historical challenges faced by the founders of calculus, suggesting that the connections between integration and differentiation were not immediately clear.
  • There are references to Ramanujan's experiences with seemingly obvious mathematical truths that required deeper consideration, drawing parallels to the FTC.
  • One participant emphasizes the importance of understanding the FTC as a fundamental property that ties together the two main subjects of calculus.
  • Another participant shares their personal experience of initially not finding the relationship between integration and differentiation obvious until studying the proof of the FTC.
  • Stokes' version of the theorem is mentioned as a perspective that repositions the FTC within broader theoretical contexts.
  • There is a discussion about the definitions of integration and anti-differentiation, with some participants asserting that the FTC's significance lies in the relationship between Riemann sums and anti-derivatives.

Areas of Agreement / Disagreement

Participants express a range of views on the intuitiveness and significance of the FTC. While some find it obvious, others argue that it requires deeper understanding and historical context. The discussion remains unresolved regarding the perceived clarity and importance of the theorem.

Contextual Notes

Participants reference the historical development of calculus and the original writings of Newton and Leibniz, indicating that the understanding of these concepts has evolved over time. There are mentions of the complexities involved in defining integration and its relationship to differentiation, which may not be fully addressed in introductory courses.

EchoRush
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TL;DR
Some questions/thoughts on the fundamental theorem of calculus?
As you can see form my previous posts, I am in my first university level calculus class ever. It is going very well, and through the class I am asking good questions and trying to actually make connection with the stuff we arr doing - not just doing the math just for the sake of passing - I am actually interested in math.

So, let me set it up for you. We began talking about limits (and everything that goes with them) and then we started with derivatives (and everything that goes with them) and then chain rule and then applications of this/related rates and then we studied integrals. All of this was leading up to her telling us about the fundamental theorem of calculus...that was today.

I was thinking to myself before class today "okay, here it is, I am going to have this big ah-ha moment when i put it all together". Then we were told what the theorem is. Needless to say, I was disappointed. I found out that the theorem basically says that taking a derivative is the inverse function of taking an integral and vice versa. If that is not correct, then please correct me.

The reason I am disappointed is because during the class time when we started talking about integrals and how to do them, it becomes fairly obvious that it is the opposite of taking a derivative. What I mean to say is way back when the founders of calculus came up with this theorem it must have been a HUGE deal to discover this because today when you see it after doing derivatives and integrals it is sort of like "duh, yeah". My question is, did this stump the fathers of calculus at first? Were they confused on what is the opposite of a derivative is? Today when you see it after taking a calc class, it is no more surprising than figuring out multiplication is the inverse or dividing or likewise with addition/subtraction. My question is was it a big mystery to the founders of calculus?
 
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If you are disappointed by the FTC you must be hard to please.
 
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There's a sequence of videos on the 3Blue1Brown channel called the "Essence of Calculus" and you should watch it as they will give you more insight to what you are learning now.

 
Can you explain why you think the fundamental theorem of calculus is obvious?

You compared the situation to division being inverse to multiplication. But that is true by definition, whereas integration is usually defined (in a first calculus course) as a limit of Riemann sums, which doesn't make mention to differentiation at all.
 
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Sometimes "obvious" things must be proven be we know they are obvious.

Ramanujan ran into similar issues where he thought something was obviously true but hadn't considered some other aspect that would counter it. The most well known is the ##\pi(n)## counting function that he thought was correct but Hardy saw that he hadn't considered the effects of complex zeros in the formula.

https://mathoverflow.net/questions/288410/what-did-ramanujan-get-wrong
Nice WIRED article on Ramanujan:

https://www.wired.com/2016/04/who-was-ramanujan/
 
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1) "Fundamental" is not the same as "most difficult to understand".
2) Other than linearity (which is a common property), can you think of a more basic property for calculus? And this property ties the two main subjects of calculus together. Otherwise, those two subjects would probably not be considered to belong in the same subject called "calculus".
3) You may want to read about the long development of calculus here to understand how hard it was.
4) You might want to read some of Newton's original writings to understand how obscure the thinking was. (Leibniz may have been easier to understand, but I have never seen his writings.)
 
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  • #10
I like Stokes' version
$$
\int_C d\omega = \int_{\partial C} \omega
$$
and all of a sudden it is all but obvious anymore, and placed in the center of the theory again, where it belongs, due to its central meaning for calculus.
 
  • #11
If you say that the "Fundamental Theorem of Calculus" is "obvious", exactly what were you taught as "integration"? It is obvious that "anti-differentiation" is the inverse of "differentiation" but the point of the FTC is that the integral, as defined by the Riemann sums, IS given by the "anti-derivative".
 
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